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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #4681
    Breaking: Cummings fires Javid. Hires someone better at preaching his slogans and gains full control of No. 10 and 11.

  2. #4682
    Rishi Sunak is very talented. I personally tipped him on another site as a value bet to be next Prime Minister:
    Link, guest article on another politics site:
    https://www7.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/11/29/a-200-1-tip-for-next-prime-minister/

    Today's article referencing my tip: https://www7.politicalbetting.com/in...iss-reshuffle/
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #4683
    English Trump has learned from American Trump. Good thing Javid had the sense to resign rather than fire his advisors for stupid political reasons.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #4684
    I guess we now know what it feels like to have unelected bureaucrats running the country.

    We're leveling up!
    Last edited by gogobongopop; 02-13-2020 at 02:57 PM.

  5. #4685
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    I guess we now know what it feels like to have unelected bureaucrats running the country.

    We're leveling up!
    What unelected bureaucrat are you talking about?

    Cummings isn't a bureaucrat he's an advisor and every PM has always had those. Plus he can easily be sacked at an election, he went into the election as Boris's advisor and Boris won a massive majority. Had Boris lost the election then we'd have Seumas Milne in his place who is/was Corbyn's equivalent.

    Bureaucrats can't be sacked at elections, that's the difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #4686
    Oh ok, I guess we now know what it feels like to have unelected advisors running the country.

    Leveling up!

  7. #4687

  8. #4688
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    But what's more interesting is how Randy no longer is a fanboy of Javid.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  9. #4689
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    But what's more interesting is how Randy no longer is a fanboy of Javid.
    I am. I'd have been quite happy for Javid to have replaced May and in the unlikely event of Boris going any time soon then I'd be happy for Javid to win, though for purely private reasons I'd be happier for Sunak to win (I bet £20 @ 250/1 that Sunak will be next Prime Minister which gives me one hell of an incentive to want Sunak to win ). However there's no vacancy and Boris is PM and he's more than capable of leading this country and has my full support.

    What Boris has done yesterday is cut the Treasury down back to size, which is not a bad thing. Under Gordon Brown the Treasury became a "government within a government" and that wasn't healthy, the TB-GB period was not a good period of government. Under their successors it was moot, Brown was crap and on his way out. Cameron and Osborne were genuine and close allies so operated as one team not against each other. May was crap. Johnson has sought to redesign the structure so that there is now a joint economic team of SPADs that work across Numbers 10 and 11 so that they're on the same page. Its sane, rational joined up government and makes sense to do. Javid chose not to accept those terms, that's fair enough and I respect him for walking away, hopefully in a year or two he can be back in a more junior role after a subsequent reshuffle (as happened when May sacked Gove only to bring him back later).

    The PM historically used to be the head of the Treasury. The Prime Minister's official title is First Lord of the Treasury, the Chancellor's official title is Second Lord of the Treasury. Having a joint Treasury team across Numbers 10 and 11 makes sense to me and I support that. Its worth noting that historically the Prime Minister was the Chancellor, as recently as Gladstone. Having the Chancellor and the PM not being on the same page is not a good idea and I'm glad going forwards they will be more like Cameron/Osborne and less like Blair/Brown.

    PS the Prime Minister at reshuffles has the absolute right to create/abolish/merge/change departments and restructure things. It happens with most PMs. Tony Blair famously once abolished a department at a reshuffle because he forgot it existed and forgot to put someone to fill its post!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #4690
    There's "not being on the same page" and there's removing anyone who thinks differently, scrutinises or challenges you. And then replacing them with powerless yes men and useful idiots.

    At least May had the courage to fill and keep a cabinet full of diverse opinions, ideas and with people who would challenge her. With such a weak opposition, that kind of approach is essential and is in the national interest.

  11. #4691


    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  12. #4692
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    There's "not being on the same page" and there's removing anyone who thinks differently, scrutinises or challenges you. And then replacing them with powerless yes men and useful idiots.

    At least May had the courage to fill and keep a cabinet full of diverse opinions, ideas and with people who would challenge her. With such a weak opposition, that kind of approach is essential and is in the national interest.
    There are many powerful and diverse people in the cabinet.

    And a few duds I must admit.

    Whom is it that you miss from May's cabinet? Hammond? Rudd? Fox? Davis? Gauke? Cairns? Leadsom? Fallon? Green? Clark? Grayling? Green? Greening? I'll agree with Hunt and Javid but May originally got rid of many of Cameron's strongest cabinet ministers like Osborne and Gove.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #4693
    Pretty funny if true:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/EdConwayS...79325344051200

    UK export stats greatly distorted by a US bank reclassifying ownership of its gold assets.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #4694
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    You realize, of course, that the British bureaucracy has been there all along.
    Yes, and they sometimes absolutely worship it (EG NHS).

  15. #4695
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    You guys remember that I strongly alluded to the rise of Nazism recently?

    Well, turns out that BloJo just hired a racist guy who's a fan of Eugenics:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-of-racial-iq

    Also:

    Sabisky, 27, has claimed black Americans have a lower than average IQ than white people and are more likely to have an “intellectual disability”. He also tweeted: “I am always straight up in saying that women’s sport is more comparable to the Paralympics than it is to men’s.”[...]

    Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, said over the weekend that Sabisky’s comments were “not my views and those are not the views of the government”.

    However, the prime minister’s deputy official spokesman said Shapps was speaking only for himself when he made that statement.
    Their true colours just showed. Despicable.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  16. #4696
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    You guys remember that I strongly alluded to the rise of Nazism recently?

    Well, turns out that BloJo just hired a racist guy who's a fan of Eugenics:

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-of-racial-iq

    Also:



    Their true colours just showed. Despicable.
    He is a very stable genius.

    http://theworldforgotten.com/showthread.php?t=7497
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #4697
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Well, at least he did what BloJo didn't have the balls to do: He quit.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  18. #4698
    Post-Brexit immigration system has been announced which is an improvement on what we had and what I wanted. Non-discriminatory, looser immigration for non-EU than what we had before and based on a clean and smart system.
    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...licy-statement
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #4699
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    Yeah, a family of five paying 21,299 pounds for the proceedings sounds like a bargain. Even a single applicant needs deep pockets.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  20. #4700
    You're including fees to pay a contribution towards the NHS etc as visa fees? Oookay . . .
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #4701
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You're including fees to pay a contribution towards the NHS etc as visa fees? Oookay . . .
    You were talking about the "Immigration System" as a whole. Not singularly about visa. As such, any and all fees you are required to pay in order to enter and stay in the country are fair game. With your system, the UK is among the most expensive countries by quite a margin.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  22. #4702
    That's fine, it includes having a comprehensive health system being paid for. Unless you include healthcare costs in your comparison you're comparing apples with oranges.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #4703
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Germany doesn't charge that much. We demand about ~756 pounds for a family of five over five years. With your new scheme, it's 400 pounds per year.

    Per person, mind.

    Upfront.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  24. #4704
    Good for you.

    If someone wants to pay to contribute to the NHS and come here then I'm happy for them to do so. These rules have existed for non-EU citizens for years, now its being equalised for EU and non-EU to be the same we are dropping the requirements for non-EU making it easier for non-EU citizens to come here. The £30k salary threshold that existed in the past has been dropped down to £25k now - and £20k potentially depending upon industry.

    As Hazir is fond of saying, you're third party now. Why should you not be treated the same as the rest of the world?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #4705
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    I would never say anything like that a EU country would be a third party, because that's a wrong use of the term.

    Other than that I think it's the UK's right to set its own immigration rules. Others may have opinions about those rules but these opinions are not relevant.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  26. #4706
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Good for you.

    If someone wants to pay to contribute to the NHS and come here then I'm happy for them to do so. These rules have existed for non-EU citizens for years, now its being equalised for EU and non-EU to be the same we are dropping the requirements for non-EU making it easier for non-EU citizens to come here. The £30k salary threshold that existed in the past has been dropped down to £25k now - and £20k potentially depending upon industry.

    As Hazir is fond of saying, you're third party now. Why should you not be treated the same as the rest of the world?
    You need nurses. Said nurses still don't really earn the limits you impose. You already have a shortage.

    Have fun wrecking your NHS.

    We also require people to contribute. Just not upfront. If you had the choice between a country with a requirement of paying 5,000 pounds or a mere 140 pounds to enter the country - and everything else would be roughly on par, which country would you choose?
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  27. #4707
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Others may have opinions about those rules but these opinions are not relevant.
    Well, we're merely pointing out that, in addition to threatening to shoot their own feet off (brexit talks) they now also want to amputate their right hand.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  28. #4708
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    You need nurses. Said nurses still don't really earn the limits you impose. You already have a shortage.

    Have fun wrecking your NHS.

    We also require people to contribute. Just not upfront. If you had the choice between a country with a requirement of paying 5,000 pounds or a mere 140 pounds to enter the country - and everything else would be roughly on par, which country would you choose?
    You're talking through your arse. Nurses earn well over the threshold required for a visa - and the threshold has come down.

    Everything else isn't par. We're one of the most attractive countries to migrate to for good reason because ours is a great country and that fee includes universal healthcare too. Considering we're still getting plenty of migrants coming to us, lots more than the old target that's been scrapped, that's not a concern.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #4709
    Meanwhile talks on the EU's next budget are getting acrimonious and collapsing due to the whole in the budget left by Brexit. Our largesse will be hard to replace. I wonder at what point people will realise they screwed up rejecting Cameron's reasonable requests, just as they'll be making a mistake if they reject Johnson's reasonable requests for a Canada style deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #4710
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Meanwhile talks on the EU's next budget are getting acrimonious and collapsing due to the whole in the budget left by Brexit. Our largesse will be hard to replace. I wonder at what point people will realise they screwed up rejecting Cameron's reasonable requests, just as they'll be making a mistake if they reject Johnson's reasonable requests for a Canada style deal.
    What is the relevance of the usual tug of war over the budget to Brexit.

    Don't have any illusions about Europeans changing their minds about Brexit; it's a side-show and only seen as British excentricity. Nobody really cares what De Pfeffel wants; people care about our own interests. Which are not the same as those of a silly little island's of our coast.
    Last edited by Hazir; 02-22-2020 at 02:18 PM.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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