Actually it's called economic.Originally Posted by RandBlade
Which again shows why it's counter productive to have discussions with 'Brexiteers'. It makes it seem there is something approaching equality between the positions.
Actually it's called economic.
Which again shows why it's counter productive to have discussions with 'Brexiteers'. It makes it seem there is something approaching equality between the positions.
Congratulations America
Think Gogo's view is also somewhat rooted in environmentalism.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No it's not, that's just your small minded ignorant prejudices.
The rest of the world is the vast majority of our trade by value. In January RoW trade was worth 150% of what European trade was worth. It's not normally that much yet, though it is almost always worth more and has been and growing for a long time now.
If there was a forced choice between only trading with Europe and only trading with the rest of the world, the wise choice is of course the rest of the world. Not that it will happen but Europe is just not that important. It's important but as merely one important partner of many.
Which is still baseless. There is no environmental reason to be abandoning high value, high margin, high output, low emissions trade with the rest of the world and instead seeking to maximise the low value, low margin, low output trade that can be shoved into lorries and driven all around the continent.
The UK has a services trade surplus with the rest of the world that has low emissions. Why would you seek to do less of that? If you are only thinking "foreign is bad" that's xenophobic not green.
But why make trade with their nearest neighbour, also the richest bloc in the world, more expensive and challenging, damaging the UK's own economic interests?
Nevermind potential trade deals with anybody else.
I guess it all doesn't matter very much for someone for who the lower classes aren't worth any consideration. Why should anybody care that they don't have jobs, houses or food even? Seriously why would you care with all those unicorns waiting to be caught?
Congratulations America
You seem to think that people here are stupid enough to not notice that the only reason why the RoW trade is bigger relative to EU trade is that EU trade collapsed, not that RoW trade grew.
Congratulations America
Well we're not deliberately making trade with our nearest neighbour more expensive and challenging. We've got a zero tariff, zero quota deal with Europe but they're a third party so c'est la vie beyond that. Considering we have a mammoth trade deficit with Europe they have more to lose than we do from any disruption.
As for the richest bloc in the world, you don't actually think that's the EU do you? The EU isn't the richest trade bloc in the world, they're not the second biggest. They're not even close.
I don't understand why Europeans and Europhiles insist on calling the EU the biggest trade bloc in the world, its not even close to being true, not even remotely close. Biggest egos maybe, but that doesn't mean much.
RoW trade has been bigger for years.
Declining trade with Europe is bad for you more than us.
There you go again; trying to make your loss as good for no other reason than that we might (in absolute terms lose more. You do understand you don't lose less by us losing more, right?
Congratulations America
I see you cranked up the idiocy a lot tonightWell we're not deliberately making trade with our nearest neighbour more expensive and challenging. We've got a zero tariff, zero quota deal with Europe but they're a third party so c'est la vie beyond that. Considering we have a mammoth trade deficit with Europe they have more to lose than we do from any disruption.
As for the richest bloc in the world, you don't actually think that's the EU do you? The EU isn't the richest trade bloc in the world, they're not the second biggest. They're not even close.
I don't understand why Europeans and Europhiles insist on calling the EU the biggest trade bloc in the world, its not even close to being true, not even remotely close. Biggest egos maybe, but that doesn't mean much.
Congratulations America
Actually we do lose less. Y = C + I + G + (X -M)
Our (X - M) improved by over a billion pounds.
Now I'm a big advocate of free trade and not a proponent of import substitutions, I believe the efficiencies of free trade outweigh the benefits of import substitutions, but if the EU with whom we have a tremendous trade deficit put friction on trade then that will encourage import substitutions which will take the sting out of any damage. Plus we have our freedom to do as we please and can do freer trade with the rest of the world that matter much, much more to us than you do.
You on the other hand have lost efficiencies from free trade and lost over a billion pounds on net exports and gained ... Nothing. Oh what a shame.
As the party with the most to lose by a longshot it's on the EU to eliminate frictions. If you don't that's cutting off your own nose to spite your face.
It's idiotic to say the EU isn't the world's richest bloc?
Perhaps you could enlighten me then by saying how rich the EU is?
Perhaps then try putting that into a league table of other blocs?
The EU wasn't even the biggest bloc two years ago but having misplaced one of its most valuable members it isn't even anywhere close now. It's already down to third and nowhere close to the top two, once the UK joins the CPTPP it won't even be in the top 3 anymore. Heck if you include individual nations as well as the bigger blocs they're in the EU falls even lower.
FYI the biggest trade bloc in the world is the RCEP. The next biggest is USMCA. The EU is a fraction of both of those. CPTPP+UK would be ahead of the EU too. USA and China alone are both ahead of the EU.
Richest bloc my arse.
Last edited by RandBlade; 03-13-2021 at 07:35 AM.
Hey Randy, you know I don't discuss this with you like you have anything relevant to say. But I think before next week is over the US senate is going to do something you won't like.
USA does matter?
Congratulations America
I'm having a hard time figuring out how the US sees this playing out. It's a major rebuke, to be sure, but, other than the demonstration of power and distrust, I can't figure out whether it has any practical implications for US-UK negotiations.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
What are you trying to ask?
Of course the US matters, everyone matters, but their opinions are their own not mine. Same with you. We're not Americans - American politicians do plenty of things I dislike. C'est la vie.
So far negotiations with the US are going well and there's no reason for any problems.
As I've said my ideal would be for there not to be bilateral UK/US negotiations but instead the UK and USA both join the CPTPP - but I'm not sure the US will rejoin it unfortunately so bilaterals may be necessary instead.
I think it's the Irish vote that makes it relevant. I doubt any Irish American isn't aware of the fact that their ancestors were run out of their own country by English landlords. What the UK doesn't get is that the real special relationship isn't between London and Washington DC.
What I understand from the prepared text it frames the protocol as essential to the protection of the GFA. So the UK gets the message to stop fucking around with it and start implementing it.
Congratulations America
As usual you are behind the curve.
Congratulations America
Good Friday Agreement comes first. That's what you muppets didn't understand, you thought you could weaponise the GFA resulting in the Protocol but the GFA comes first and foremost.
If the Protocol threatens peace then peace is first, Protocol second.
The Americans care about peace too.
No, I get that. What I mean is, if the US exerts pressure on the UK to uphold its obligations under int'l law wrt the GFA and the NIP, does that have any practical legal implications for US-UK trade negotiations? Ie. does a hypothetical US-UK trade deal in a scenario where the UK has to comply with the provisions of the EU-UK deal look different from a US-UK deal in a scenario where the US doesn't require the UK to abide by its obligations? Like, is the former scenario more restrictive from a trade law perspective? Is there anything the UK can do v a v the US-UK trade negs by violating its obligations under the NIP that it can't do if it abides by the treaty?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Oh, I see, no not from a formal point of view. But practically, by demanding that any future US-UK deal includes a demand that GFA and NIP are upheld, it makes it impossible for the US government to strike any deal that doesn't include an Irish sea border proviso. Attempts of the UK to wriggle out of the NIP will automatically kill the negotiations.
I see Randy thinks the UK will be allowed to unilaterally decide whether or not the NIP violates the GFA. I have strong feelings the EU and USA don't quite see it that way.
Congratulations America
The USA is not twinned with the EU, nor the Policeman for this matter. The USA wants peace in Northern Ireland. If the Protocol causes violence that's not peace. As for negotiations with the USA those are likely to take years anyway.
What the EU thinks matters no more than what the UK thinks. Welcome to the real world, Northern Ireland is the UK's sovereign territory, not yours.
Whichever way this is cut
- UK does more trade with the EU than anybody else
- Trade has declined between the UK and the EU since Brexit
- Both the UK and the EU are now economically worse off
Indeed.
Congratulations America
Did I just feel the goal post moving again? You're sounding more and more desperate.
Congratulations America
That's far too premature to say.
Though net the EU is down over a billion in net exports and they've gained no freedoms the UK has gained. The UK has many gains as well as the potential for economic gains whereas for the EU it seems to be just loss, maybe they should have paid more attention to what the UK wanted.
What goalposts? You and Khen etc kept postponing the supposed crash we were supposed to receive and instead the UK is going from strength to strength post Brexit.
I anticipate the UK will grow faster than the Eurozone this year and this decade as a whole. What do you think?
I'm not into comparing dick sizes.
Congratulations America
LOL.
It eats you up inside that we're doing so well outside of Europe doesn't it. You just knew it was going to go wrong and it hasn't and you're mortified.
You need to find a hobby.
Congratulations America
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote