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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #5881
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Steely, Tim, Gogo - if the EU do decide to rip up the rule of law and void legally signed contracts by blocking vaccines from the EU to the UK then how should Britain retaliate in your eyes?
    I dunno.

    I guess we should show some compasion and empathy. I think a large part of the EU's problems with AZN has been that we were, as our PM said yesterday, "greedy". Great for us. Bad for everyone else. I think we should recognise that we've caused them a problem and do all we can to diplomatically ease tensions without retaliation. They are our friends and neighbours and need our help.

    I think anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that if every European country did what we did, we'd all be in a far worse situation than we are now, so I don't think the "EU" are trembling at our success. Personally, I think if we'd gone along with the EU and joined in, there would have been no issue. Sure, we would have gone a little bit slower, but I prefer a cooperative approach in the melting pot that is Europe anyway.

  2. #5882
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    I dunno.

    I guess we should show some compasion and empathy. I think a large part of the EU's problems with AZN has been that we were, as our PM said yesterday, "greedy". Great for us. Bad for everyone else. I think we should recognise that we've caused them a problem and do all we can to diplomatically ease tensions without retaliation. They are our friends and neighbours and need our help.

    I think anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that if every European country did what we did, we'd all be in a far worse situation than we are now, so I don't think the "EU" are trembling at our success. Personally, I think if we'd gone along with the EU and joined in, there would have been no issue. Sure, we would have gone a little bit slower, but I prefer a cooperative approach in the melting pot that is Europe anyway.
    If everyone had done as we'd done there'd be 7 times as much investment across the EU, 7 times the output and the world would be a far better place! Your attitude (and the EU's to be fair) is treating the vaccine as if its sausages at the butchers that you just walk in, place your order and take it out. The UK's attitude is that these vaccines didn't exist so funded production of the vaccines, building an abbatoir, buying the machinery for the butcher etc to ensure the sausages are made. The UK is now producing millions of doses of vaccine per month - are you aware of how many vaccines were being produced in this country prior to this pandemic?

    Ziggy - The EU are the ones threatening to violate contracts, not the UK. Good analogy for then Mayor Boris dodging the EU's vaccine mishaps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #5883
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    Did he start cross posting his nonsense?
    Congratulations America

  4. #5884
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    I dunno.

    I guess we should show some compasion and empathy. I think a large part of the EU's problems with AZN has been that we were, as our PM said yesterday, "greedy". Great for us. Bad for everyone else. I think we should recognise that we've caused them a problem and do all we can to diplomatically ease tensions without retaliation. They are our friends and neighbours and need our help.

    I think anyone with an ounce of sense would realise that if every European country did what we did, we'd all be in a far worse situation than we are now, so I don't think the "EU" are trembling at our success. Personally, I think if we'd gone along with the EU and joined in, there would have been no issue. Sure, we would have gone a little bit slower, but I prefer a cooperative approach in the melting pot that is Europe anyway.
    Agree with all of that really. Always prefer a cooperative approach.

    And Boris's greed comments belong in the Clown Circus thread.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 03-24-2021 at 10:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  5. #5885
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Agree with all of that really. Always prefer a cooperative approach.

    And Boris's greed comments belong in the Clown Circus thread.
    But do you believe that cooperation is still possible in the absence of any trust? The overt hostility of your government almost in itself justifies hard retaliation.
    Congratulations America

  6. #5886
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Agree with all of that really. Always prefer a cooperative approach.
    We've been doing that. Kate Bingham who did such a brilliant job with the Vaccine Taskforce along with others have been asked to help the Europeans build up their scheme and output.
    And Boris's greed comments belong in the Clown Circus thread.
    It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.

    LOL Hazir at your suggestion that our government is the one being hostile. Our government, as have Astrazeneca, have shown remarkable restraint in recent months while the EU lose their minds - and this all could have been avoided if the EU had spent what we'd spent to build up capacity instead of acting as if there's a limited supply of vaccines they can just walk in and buy. Gogo still seems to be under the misapprehension that capacity is fixed instead of something you can build up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #5887
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Did he start cross posting his nonsense?
    It's like religion where UK are the forces of good with Boris Johnson as the messiah, EU are the forces of evil. He's attributing human characteristics. Goes against their psyche, is humiliated, all that bollocks. You couldn't parody it if you tried.

    Do you think he prays to the Union Jack?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  8. #5888
    ew
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #5889
    I agree. That mental image was uncalled for.

    'poligies.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  10. #5890
    Boris Johnson's not the messiah, he's just a very good Prime Minister doing a very good job. Had the UK been led by Jeremy Corbyn through this pandemic, who has been railing against Big Pharma even while Pharma companies are developing and distributing vaccines I have little doubt the UK's response and vaccine rollout would have been much, much worse. So there's nothing inevitably good in the UK.

    The EU aren't evil, they've just done a very bad job. As for assigning human characteristics to von der Leyen, Merkel, Macron etc . . . I didn't realise you viewed them as inhuman. My apologies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #5891
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    As for assigning human characteristics to
    the EU as a whole.
    My apologies.
    It's ok.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  12. #5892
    The EU politicians and their advocates yes. I thought that went without saying but if you were incapable of comprehending what was meant that I apologise again that it wasn't clear I was speaking about the humans.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #5893
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The EU politicians and their advocates yes.
    Right, so as myself, being an advocate for the EU. I am humiliated by the UK's successful vaccinations and it goes against my psyche that you are doing well in that regard.

    Do I have a say in this matter?

    edit:
    I'll be more clear, because it's obviously needed. I know you did not include me. I know because you used "they're" instead of "you're".
    That's the whole point.

    About 50% of the UK doesn't support the Brexit. It would be foolish to attribute human characteristics to the UK.

    Oct-Dec:
    Would voters now choose Remain or Leave?
    YouGov has regularly asked people the question: "In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the European Union?"


    During the last three months, on average, 39% have said that the decision was right, while 49% have stated it was wrong.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  14. #5894
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Boris Johnson's not the messiah, he's just a very good Prime Minister doing a very good job. Had the UK been led by Jeremy Corbyn through this pandemic,
    anybody compared to Corbyn would do a good job. That is not a good benchmark.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  15. #5895
    https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-disast...164409916.html

    curious on what Rand's foaming response will be
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  16. #5896
    It's teething problems.

    The businesses were weak and failing anyway.

    It's compounded by the pandemic.

    It was never about making trade easier with the EU, so this is an expected issue that people knowingly voted for.

    It doesn't really matter anyway because there are new trading opportunities.

    It'll take time to rebalance our exports. Maybe a few decades until we hit peak performance. Again, all expected and voted for.

  17. #5897
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    https://news.yahoo.com/brexit-disast...164409916.html

    curious on what Rand's foaming response will be
    No need for foaming.
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    It's teething problems.

    It's compounded by the pandemic.
    These are 100% true.

    Also other issues already raised.

    As widely reported, businesses stockpiled goods before we left in order to then not trade in the first few weeks afterwards, in case there were problems. So only a fool would compare numbers in January during a pandemic when firms were deliberately using stockpiled goods, with last January pre-pandemic.

    Without considering the fact our balance of trade improved by over a billion pounds, precisely because its not likely to be permanent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #5898
    Spain is also having some teething problems, judging from this headline in the UK's premier newspaper



    More context here: https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/new...orrow-april-1/
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #5899
    "premier newspaper" yet you don't name it or give a link.

    That doesn't look like the font that the Times uses.

    People should have filled in the paperwork they needed. Those that haven't will end up needing to sort themselves out. Yes a teething problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #5900
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    I think the premier was sarcastic. And yeah, as I understand it they had plenty of opportunities to sort out their residency, but didn't, so tough luck. Nothing farcical or vengeful about that, I'd say.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  21. #5901
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    I think the premier was sarcastic. And yeah, as I understand it they had plenty of opportunities to sort out their residency, but didn't, so tough luck. Nothing farcical or vengeful about that, I'd say.
    Are you trying to imply that The Sun Isn't England's premier newspaper?

    I do sympathize with some of these people, as I reckon some applications may have been delayed for reasons outside their control. But yeah, it's a little tragicomic seeing them having to come to terms with being treated like everyone else, even though I believe everyone else should also be treated better in general.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #5902
    The Sun is a tabloid rag. Only a fool would consider it a premier newspaper.

    Oh I see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #5903
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    I found out about a surprising effect of Brexit; Brits who recieved the right to remain in the EU on the basis of the WA, but who don't qualify (yet) for permanent residency as a third country resident in the EU are subject to the Schengen visa regulations when they travel outside their country of residence. Which means they need to apply for a visa if they want to stay more than 90 days out of any 180 day period. So for example if the child of a British couple in The Netherlands would like to study in Spain for a semester that child would need to apply for a visa, even under the Erasmus program.
    Congratulations America

  24. #5904
    Indeed.

    My sister, who lives permanently as an expat in Barcelona and has recently bought property there, is changing her passport from British to Irish, her husband's nationality, due to all the issues and difficulties UK expats are facing in the EU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  25. #5905
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Indeed.

    My sister, who lives permanently as an expat in Barcelona and has recently bought property there, is changing her passport from British to Irish, her husband's nationality, due to all the issues and difficulties UK expats are facing in the EU.
    It must be worse than I can imagine if she does that despite being the wife of an Irish EU citizen making use of his FOM.

    The word is immigrant by the way.
    Congratulations America

  26. #5906
    No, the word is expat. Its like credit vs debit in accounting, both sides of the ledger apply but it depends how you're looking.

    A UK expat is someone who left the UK and is an immigrant in another country.
    A UK immigrant is someone who has arrived in the UK and is an expat from another country.

    Since Tim is talking about people who have left the UK then the word expat applies. If he'd said UK immigrants then that would be immigrants living in the UK, not expats from the UK.

    Anyway, not sure why any of this is surprising, free movement is over. Surely everybody was aware of that, what part of it is surprising?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #5907
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I found out about a surprising effect of Brexit; Brits who recieved the right to remain in the EU on the basis of the WA, but who don't qualify (yet) for permanent residency as a third country resident in the EU are subject to the Schengen visa regulations when they travel outside their country of residence. Which means they need to apply for a visa if they want to stay more than 90 days out of any 180 day period. So for example if the child of a British couple in The Netherlands would like to study in Spain for a semester that child would need to apply for a visa, even under the Erasmus program.
    Hard to say if they even tried to negotiate an exception. Would've been a nightmare to administer. But yeah, def. a pain in the ass for some British immigrants in the EU.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #5908
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It must be worse than I can imagine if she does that despite being the wife of an Irish EU citizen making use of his FOM.

    The word is immigrant by the way.
    Always best if your rights & freedoms don't depend on your husband's rights
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  29. #5909
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No, the word is expat. Its like credit vs debit in accounting, both sides of the ledger apply but it depends how you're looking.

    A UK expat is someone who left the UK and is an immigrant in another country.
    A UK immigrant is someone who has arrived in the UK and is an expat from another country.

    Since Tim is talking about people who have left the UK then the word expat applies. If he'd said UK immigrants then that would be immigrants living in the UK, not expats from the UK.

    Anyway, not sure why any of this is surprising, free movement is over. Surely everybody was aware of that, what part of it is surprising?
    That's not how the word is used though, and I think you're thinking of the word emigrant.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  30. #5910
    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    That's not how the word is used though, and I think you're thinking of the word emigrant.
    As a rule, Anglo immigrants from the UK (and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Aus, NZ, Can, occasionally US) tend to refer to themselves as expats. Middle- & upper-middle-class Indian immigrants have adopted the same terminology in the past decade or so. Almost no-one refers to themselves as an "emigrant". The closer your cultural ties to England—and the larger, wealthier and more self-contained your immigrant community—the more likely you are to refer to yourself as an "expat". In the UK, it's a little more complex, with some immigrants often being referred to as "expats" (eg. immigrants from the Anglosphere, but also—occasionally—from France, Germany, etc), and others of similar status typically being described as "immigrants" (eg. immigrants from Poland, Eastern Europe). Bengalis, Pakistanis, etc. are, of course, "immigrants".
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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