Page 20 of 93 FirstFirst ... 1018192021223070 ... LastLast
Results 571 to 600 of 2776

Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #571
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    I don't like May, don't agree with some of her policies and think she's squandered a lot of goodwill Cameron had worked hard to win us. I also think she mishandled dreadfully the election and is stuffing up this negotiation.

    But I don't think she's batshit crazy. She's no Jeremy Corbyn or Diane Abbott.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #572
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't like May, don't agree with some of her policies and think she's squandered a lot of goodwill Cameron had worked hard to win us. I also think she mishandled dreadfully the election and is stuffing up this negotiation.

    But I don't think she's batshit crazy. She's no Jeremy Corbyn or Diane Abbott.
    She's he one who made hard Brexit a government policy before she knew what it entailed. You still don't get that her Lancaster House speech put in play the risk of planes being grounded after the 29th or March, 1919. And she can't claim she wasn't warned.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  3. #573
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    No I still don't believe that as it is bullshit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #574
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    I used to dislike David Davis but he seems to be doing a reasonable job so far. His proposals on a transitional customs union and the ambitions for the ultimate deal seem like a sensible compromise: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40922177
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #575
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I used to dislike David Davis but he seems to be doing a reasonable job so far. His proposals on a transitional customs union and the ambitions for the ultimate deal seem like a sensible compromise: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40922177
    You mean he's done bullshitting the public?

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #576
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #577
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    Whatever you do, don't mention the NHS bus.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #578
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I used to dislike David Davis but he seems to be doing a reasonable job so far. His proposals on a transitional customs union and the ambitions for the ultimate deal seem like a sensible compromise: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40922177
    A compromise amounting to having your cake and eat it. On something that's not even on the agenda. Don't you think Mr Davis would have been wiser to suggest something that makes it possible to talk about the situation after Brexit. As in making a reasonable proposal for how to Brexit ?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  9. #579
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Of course the customs arrangements is on the agenda whether you want to talk about it or not. There needs to be a solution to this and the clock is ticking so you can't put it off forever. If the EU doesn't want to talk about this yet then we should set the agenda and let them react like they've done to us over the ridiculous exit bill proposals.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #580
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Of course the customs arrangements is on the agenda whether you want to talk about it or not. There needs to be a solution to this and the clock is ticking so you can't put it off forever. If the EU doesn't want to talk about this yet then we should set the agenda and let them react like they've done to us over the ridiculous exit bill proposals.
    Without agreement on Brexit itself there is no interest whatsoever in a deal for after Brexit.

    You lot are facing a problem entirely of your own making, you fix it. So far you have not offered anything that makes Brexit worthwhile for us. A good proposal is one your opposite party is willing to discuss, not one which blatantly shows you're still thinking to have your cake and eat it. The Davis proposal that you think reasonable is dead on arrival.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #581
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Brexit is happening whether you find it worthwhile or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #582
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Brexit is happening whether you find it worthwhile or not.
    As is the 30th of March, 2019. A date we have zero interest in a deal for, if you haven't shown to be serious in the Brexit negotiations. So far, you haven't. Tick Tock.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  13. #583
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Making serious customs proposals is part of being serious in the negotiations. Not seen anything serious on your side unlike DD's proposals. Tic toc to you too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #584
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Making serious customs proposals is part of being serious in the negotiations. Not seen anything serious on your side unlike DD's proposals. Tic toc to you too.
    We don't want 'frictionless borders' with you, you have been told this repeatedly. Offers of what we have already rejected, and which would be in violation of our own legal framework, are not serious proposals. This proposal will not be talked about. It's dead on arrival.

    Interesting though that you keep insisting on calling serious proposals, that we - predictably - will not discuss.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  15. #585
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the forests of the night
    Posts
    5,744
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    As is the 30th of March, 2019. A date we have zero interest in a deal for, if you haven't shown to be serious in the Brexit negotiations. So far, you haven't. Tick Tock.
    The actual date is even earlier - a deal has to be struck at least three months before because ratification will take at least that much time.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  16. #586
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Yes and you supposedly want the Irish border issue resolved before talking about trade but the Irish border issue can't be resolved until we know what we're doing about trade. Yeah, that's serious.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #587
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    In the forests of the night
    Posts
    5,744
    You guys have no clue what can of worms you're opening with the Irish border idiocy.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  18. #588
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    The actual date is even earlier - a deal has to be struck at least three months before because ratification will take at least that much time.
    I know that, but the date for which they need a deal in place is that day. We on the other hand could take till kingdom come to make a deal on Brexit itself. It's only they who are under a deadline.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  19. #589
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes and you supposedly want the Irish border issue resolved before talking about trade but the Irish border issue can't be resolved until we know what we're doing about trade. Yeah, that's serious.
    Yes, and as the Irish PM has said, he wants it resolved by you. And FYI, you've been parading around that wonderful CTA all the time, which was pre-EU, so basically not trade related at all. Tick Tock.

    Anyway, the outcome is already clear; there will be a hard border and there will be border controls and the only reason why Northern Irish will be able to not be subject to a visa regime is that they can claim Irish citizenship if they were born in the island. You on the other hand should make yourself acquainted with the Schengen criteria. Probably also for travel to Ireland.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  20. #590
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Yes, and as the Irish PM has said, he wants it resolved by you. And FYI, you've been parading around that wonderful CTA all the time, which was pre-EU, so basically not trade related at all. Tick Tock.

    Anyway, the outcome is already clear; there will be a hard border and there will be border controls and the only reason why Northern Irish will be able to not be subject to a visa regime is that they can claim Irish citizenship if they were born in the island. You on the other hand should make yourself acquainted with the Schengen criteria. Probably also for travel to Ireland.
    We've already said what we've got to say. Keep the CTA, keep free trade, have frictionless customs.

    If you guys aren't happy with that then its up to you to make a counter-proposal but we're not proposing to put up a border between ourselves and Ireland so what else is there to discuss?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #591
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Making serious customs proposals is part of being serious in the negotiations.
    You're right, so perhaps Davis should try making some serious proposals.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #592
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-fa...a-fraud-trade/

    Reading these comments and reports, I can't help but wonder: what the actual fuck is wrong with the UK?

    But I'm sure the EU will be hella keen to enter a "friends-with-temporary-customs-benefits-why-put-a-label-on-things-come-on-baby-you-know-I-really-like-you" relationship with these clowns.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  23. #593
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    We've already said what we've got to say. Keep the CTA, keep free trade, have frictionless customs.

    If you guys aren't happy with that then its up to you to make a counter-proposal but we're not proposing to put up a border between ourselves and Ireland so what else is there to discuss?
    1. The issue is not on the table.
    2. If it were on the table the proposal would still be unacceptable, not on details but in principle.

    So, again, can we finally get some serious proposals about Brexit in the Brexit negotiations?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  24. #594
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    I laugh a little every time I see a Brexiteer say "frictionless". It reminds me of "bleachbit".
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  25. #595
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    And now appearantly the EU has decided to postpone talking about talking about post-Brexit till December. Seems odd that a serious proposal would make your opponent decide that it's unlikely that enough progress will have been made two months down the line.

    Maybe we should bet on what happens first euro - pound parity or a start of talks on the post-Brexit arrangement.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  26. #596
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Bad news, anti-Brexiters: things are looking upDominic Lawson


    Rising jobs, exports and investment bode ill for the remoaner resistance


    There was more bad news last week. The unemployment rate fell to the lowest recorded figure since 1975. There was an increase in the proportion of the workforce in secure full-time employment, and a rise in the number of jobs taken up here by people from long-established EU states such as Germany, Italy, Spain and France (weren’t they supposed to be fleeing?).

    Let me be more specific: this was more bad news for the tireless tribe of pundits and politicians who still live in hope that Brexit will never happen. They are like Lenin just before the Russian Revolution, who reputedly declared of his country’s economic problems “the worse things are, the better”. He, at least, got his wishes.


    But in the UK of a century later, the bad good news just keeps coming in: exports, aided by the drop in the pound, have risen by 16% since the referendum. Manufacturing order books are at a 29-year high. A slew of foreign companies that had issued dire warnings of disinvestment if the UK voted for Brexit have since done exactly the opposite: such industrial heavyweights as Siemens, BMW and Toyota have all committed themselves to increased investment in the UK.


    Such plans are inherently long term: it suggests they have solid reasons to believe that this country will continue to offer a highly favourable environment for business, and perhaps also — but not necessarily — that there will be a satisfactory deal for both sides in the Brexit negotiations.


    Having had their forecasts of an instant post-referendum recession refuted, the Leninists of the anti-Brexit resistance are now relying on what they hope will be a mixture of British uselessness and Brussels brilliance in these negotiations. See how excited they became when David Davis, the secretary of state responsible for the British side, attended a photoshoot in Brussels with his team and those from the EU without any papers. In fact it was simply that Davis didn’t want to risk images of his negotiating points being captured by the camera crews: the notes came out (obviously) after the snappers had left the room.


    Some of the critics say that of course they knew this, but that it was a metaphor for British lack of clarity, which they contrast with the methodical way in which the EU side has set out their demands. There is something in that: the British cabinet had until recently been undecided on whether we should try to remain part of the EU customs union for some years after the official Brexit date (March 2019). Belatedly, the Treasury’s wish that we should — which would have meant no ability to negotiate our own free trade deals with other nations — was scotched.


    But we have not had any clarity from Brussels about future trading arrangements, either: despite the vaunted transparency of its published “position papers”, some of which are as thorough as you would expect from such a sumptuously equipped bureaucracy, there is nothing on this immensely important topic.


    There are two reasons. First, Brussels, acting for the 27 remaining EU states, doesn’t really know what it wants, other than that the outcome mustn’t be seen as better for the UK than being in the EU. Second, Brussels declared at the outset that there could be no talks about future trading arrangements until the British had agreed some sort of multibillion-euro deal to “honour its obligations” — an exit bill.


    The anti-Brexit resistance fighters were delighted by the intransigence on this point of Michel Barnier, the EU’s chief negotiator. It provided them with hope of a complete breakdown in the talks — and that the prospect of a so-called cliff edge would cause the British people to rise up as one to say: “We made a mistake — please let us back.” They understand surprisingly little of the character of their fellow countrymen and women.


    In fact, the insistence from Brussels on this point — though it has recently shifted ground to say there can be simultaneous negotiations on trade and the divorce bill, provided there is “sufficient progress” on the latter — is a measure of how difficult this is for the EU. As Barnier himself conceded: “Imagine if this” — a British settlement of commitments to continue funding EU expenditure — “were not to take place . . . The situation might be explosive if we have to stop programmes. Can you imagine the political problems that might arise?”


    So actually the UK is not in a dreadful negotiating position — especially as there seems not the slightest legal basis for some of the more extravagant divorce bill demands (emanating especially from Poland, because it is the biggest recipient of EU funds, and France, because it is, well, France.) My guess is there will, in the end, be a deal that gives the UK most of what it wants in terms of tariff-free access to the EU single market, in return for a sum that, while big enough to let Nigel Farage claim “betrayal” — he lives for that moment — will be cheap compared with the ever-escalating amounts we would pay ad infinitum had we remained.


    The person most optimistic that Brexit really can be reversed is Tony Blair. The former prime minister harbours plans to lead such a campaign, at the appropriate moment. Until then his ambassador on earth is his former policy chief Lord Adonis (who is also an appointee of this government as chairman of the National Infrastructure Commission).


    In two recent newspaper articles Andrew Adonis has sought to ridicule the government’s plans to leave the customs union and conduct free trade deals with the rest of the world, sneering that, in its quest to find the best man as chief negotiator, the Department for International Trade “had to make do with an official from tiny New Zealand”.


    As it happens, the man in question, Professor Crawford Falconer, has a worldwide reputation for expertise in this field. Even if he hadn’t, how disgusting to belittle a remarkable country with such close ties to our own, not just in its common legal heritage and head of state, but forged over centuries in war and peace.


    This is not a matter of sentiment. New Zealand was the first developed country to sign a free-trade deal with China and to sponsor China’s entry into the World Trade Organisation. It was a pioneer in this field and gained enormous economic benefits from it.


    And if Lord Adonis thinks that because of its size it can’t possibly produce someone up to a top job, what must he think of Luxembourg, 100 times smaller than New Zealand, and with an eighth of the population? That country has produced no fewer than three presidents of the European Commission: Jean-Claude Juncker is the latest to come off that particular production line — and by far the least distinguished.


    Actually, Juncker represents all that is least lovable about the EU. Yet he embodies the hope of some Britons that their own country will be punished and humiliated. Somehow I don’t think they will experience that perverse pleasure, either.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #597
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    This illustrates quite nicely why it's so difficult to take Lawson seriously. Productivity, already a problem in the UK, has taken a hit. Applications from highly skilled EU nationals is SHARPLY down, esp. in STEM-related sectors, and filling both highly skilled and less-skilled positions has become very difficult. Businesses and recruiters have been forced to raise starting salaries for permanent positions--and even hourly salaries in some areas--significantly in order to attract new talent, which is nice for many employees but hardly a boon for businesses.

    Meanwhile, Toyota's upgrade investment is contingent on expensive sweeteners as well as on the prospect of tariff-free trade, whereas BMW and Siemens are simply continuing business as usual while they wait and see how this plays out. It is interesting that Lawson lists these three dubious examples in support of his position while ignoring those examples that run counter to his view. Is this more of that "positive thoughts as analysis" you've been peddling in this discussion?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #598
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    14,088
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  29. #599
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    15,076
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    This illustrates quite nicely why it's so difficult to take Lawson seriously. Productivity, already a problem in the UK, has taken a hit.
    Productivity is a bizarre metric with known issues as we are at record employment levels. A lot of jobs created (and a lot filled by migrants) are of a low value-added variety but they are better than having people unemployed.

    The irony is that productivity only looks at those employed so if the marginally [un]employed are the least productive members of society then your productivity is inflated when unemployment goes up and deflated when unemployment goes down.
    Applications from highly skilled EU nationals is SHARPLY down, esp. in STEM-related sectors, and filling both highly skilled and less-skilled positions has become very difficult.
    So? We are in a state of uncertainty, that won't last forever.
    Businesses and recruiters have been forced to raise starting salaries for permanent positions--and even hourly salaries in some areas--significantly in order to attract new talent, which is nice for many employees but hardly a boon for businesses.
    No it is what economics would predict when you have the lowest unemployment rate since the 1970s - a 42 year low
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #600
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Amsterdam/Istanbul
    Posts
    9,976
    Breximaniacs like Randblade make me think of a man who already shot himself in the foot insisting he will also shoot himself in the other foot because he didn't get what he want at the first attempt.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •