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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #751
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    But that is exactly what Breximaniacs say you can and should do.
    Congratulations America

  2. #752
    It is what's been happening for years. Good news is that as of our next election all our government will be fully accountable to our electorate. If they fuck things up then we can kick them out, unlike the Eurocrats.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #753
    I cannot think of [m]any similarly monumental (for British voters) and largely irreversible decisions made by the EU with so much secrecy.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  4. #754
    There won't be any singular similarly monumental decisions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #755
    Then the comparison isn't particularly illuminating.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #756
    The issue I raised wasn't about how monumental the decisions are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #757
    Which is a strange thing to do in response to a post about how

    Brexit is the most important undertaking by a British govt. in several decades, and the outcome of the govt's strategy will shape the lives of tens of millions of people in very noticeable ways, for decades to come.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #758
    Not really. If we don't like the governments strategy we can elect a new government with a new strategy next time. That's democracy, that's how we took control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #759
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Not really. If we don't like the governments strategy we can elect a new government with a new strategy next time.
    That, too, is absurd. You're not getting a second chance at your Brexit-negotiations and a hard Brexit would be, for all intents and purposes, irreversible for the foreseeable future, which would make a new government's "new strategy" meaningless.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  10. #760
    And if that happens we can kick out the government.

    Ratifying Lisbon was irreversible and happened despite the government promising the exact opposite in its manifesto.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #761
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    And if that happens we can kick out the government.

    Ratifying Lisbon was irreversible and happened despite the government promising the exact opposite in its manifesto.
    Ratifying Lisbon turned out to be eminently reversible: you left the EU. Leaving the EU, however, is not as easily reversed.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  12. #762
    The status quo ante before Lisbon was ratified was us being members of the EU. That status quo ante no longer exists and so no, it isn't reversible.

    Though "as easily" reversed? You think leaving the EU is easy?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #763
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The status quo ante before Lisbon was ratified was us being members of the EU. That status quo ante no longer exists and so no, it isn't reversible.

    Though "as easily" reversed? You think leaving the EU is easy?
    You were convinced it was going to be.
    Congratulations America

  14. #764
    Source please.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #765
    Good piece by BoJo.
    How Brexit Britain will triumph
    My friends, I must report that there are at least some people who are woefully underestimating this country. They think brexit isn’t going to happen. There are some media observers – in this country and around the world – who think we are going to bottle it.

    I detect scepticism about whether we have the stamina, the guts, the persistence to pull it off. They think that the Brexit bill will get lost in a house of commons crevasse or buried in some interminable Jarndyce and Jarndyce legal proceedings.

    They think that we will simply despair of finding the way out of the EU and sit down on the floor and cry - like some toddler lost in the maze at Hampton Court.

    Well in so far as they doubt our resolve I believe they are wrong; and I am here to tell you that this country will succeed in our new national enterprise, and will succeed mightily.

    Those 17.4 m people – they weren’t fools, you know. They weren’t stupid. They weren’t as bad as some would have you believe.

    They were right; and even if you think they were wrong I hope you agree that it is our duty, as democrats, to fulfil the mandate they gave us.

    I respect those who voted to remain. More than respect them. They number some of the people I love the most in the world. And we all know that it is far too simple to divide this country into leavers and remainers.

    We know the complexity of the decision, and how each person brought different mixtures of reason and emotion, heart and head.

    There were lifelong Euro-sceptics who decided at the last moment to remain; and a great many, in my view, whose heart said leave but whose resolve was finally shaken by the warnings of the government, the BBC, Barack Obama, the archbishop of Canterbury, the CBI, every major political party and much of the media. And then there were dyed-in-the-wool Europhiles who thought Brussels was going too far, and the only way to get change was to vote leave.

    It is not fair or right for one side to stereotype the motives of the other, because there is no stereotype. But the choice was binary. The result was decisive. There is simply no way – or no good way – of being 52 per cent out and 48 per cent in.

    Before the referendum we all agreed on what leaving the EU logically must entail: leaving the customs union and the single market, leaving the penumbra of the ECJ; taking back control of borders, cash, laws.

    That is the programme that Theresa May set out with such clarity in her speech on Jan 17 at Lancaster House, and that is what she and her government will deliver.

    Overwhelmingly I find that leavers and remainers are coming together – sometimes with a slight impatience - and urging us to get on and do it, and do a deal that is in the interests of both sides of the channel.

    In ten years, 20 years’ time, when we consider the arc of history comprised by our 45 years of EU membership, we will have a better and fairer comprehension of these events -why the British people wanted to join, and why eventually and sometimes regretfully they wanted to leave.

    To understand why we wanted to join you have to remember the shock of Suez, the loss of confidence in Westminster and Whitehall, the way in which this post-imperial future was sold to the people – a common market, a way of maximising trade.

    Then came the gradual realisation that this was a very different agenda, an attempt not just at economic but political integration of a kind that the British people had never bargained for; and you may remember how we were repeatedly assured that even if we were unhappy with the direction of the project, even if we disagreed with the concept of ever closer union, it was nonetheless worth putting up with it all for the sake of the influence we would have.

    Of course we should pay tribute to the patriotic British men and women who went out to Brussels and got stuck into those institutions and the EU today is better for their contribution and the contribution of the British, but in the end we have to accept that they were only partly successful. And it is notable that today their numbers have diminished to the point where the UK represents 16 per cent of EU GDP and 13 per cent of the population but only 3.6 per cent of EU officials.

    If we had been asked to design the EU ourselves with a blank sheet of paper we would have nothing like the body that exists today. We tried so often to frustrate it.

    I was there at the Antibes ecofin when British officials made a gallant attempt to strangle the euro at birth with a project called the hard ecu.

    I was there when they ambushed Margaret Thatcher at the Rome summit with conclusions that the British thought had been explicitly rejected.

    I remember how we kept trying to stop this or that – we rejected the very notion of political union; we tried to stop the expansion of majority voting.

    And I remember the mantra of EU officials – Britain objects, Britain protests – but in the end she always signs up.

    Although we kept trying to deny it – with an embarrassing lack of realism – we all knew that the logic was not economic but political. It wasn’t about creating a single market; it was about trussing the nations together in a gigantic and ever tightening cat’s cradle of red tape.

    And today the argument is still the same - that if only we were there we could somehow reform it all, make it more congenial to our instincts. I wish it were true.

    Yes we do have allies – countries that look to us for a lead on deregulation, and free markets, and trying to resist the centralising role of the Commission. But I am afraid that all too often, when push comes to shove, that apparent willingness to support the UK position is less powerful than the great centripetal force of integration.

    To every question, to every crisis – whether it is the euro or immigration – the answer is always the same: more Europe!

    I look ahead over the next 15 years at what may be coming down the track: the push to create an economic government of Europe, the activism of the ECJ in all the new competences of the Lisbon Treaty; and I ask myself – do I really believe that if we had stayed in, we would have produced a more devolved a more decentralised a more free trading European Union?
    I am afraid not.

    And therefore it is wrong for us to be there – always trying to make things difficult, always getting in the way, always moaning.

    Our friends have embarked on a visionary but difficult project. Though the eurozone is growing more strongly now – and that is immensely positive – the logic of their ambition means trying to construct what is effectively a single polity out of 27 countries.

    That plan is simply not for Britain, and we should have been more honest about it years ago.

    We have spent too much time trying, and often failing, to exert influence in the meeting rooms of Brussels; and that exercise has diverted massive quantities of the intellectual energy of the British government; and it has not helped us to address the real challenges this country faces.

    It is important to have a sense of perspective about these challenges, because the world has not fallen in since June 23. We have not seen the prophesied 500,000 increase in unemployment and the Treasury has not so far sought to punish the British people with an emergency budget.

    On the contrary: unemployment is at record lows, and manufacturing is booming “in spite of brexit” as the BBC would put it. (Have you noticed that any good news is always “in spite of brexit” ?)

    But of course this country still has chronic problems and at least some of them have been exacerbated by the rigidities of EU membership – and certainly by the way we have chosen legally to apply those obligations.

    Our infrastructure is too expensive – and takes far longer than France or other countries.

    Successive governments have failed to build enough homes – though this is now being tackled by sajid javid.

    Our vocational training is often superb – but still not inspirational, and we have yet to find a way of persuading middle class kids that they might be just as well off getting a skill as a degree.

    We do not conduct enough basic research in science, and I am afraid we still have too many schools that are content with second best.

    The result of all these failings – over decades – is that we have low productivity: lower than France or Germany.

    I believe we have an immense can-do spirit. I have seen it in action. But we also have a truly phenomenal ability to delay and to rack up cost. We have been able to blame bureaucracy and to blame Brussels, and my point is that after Brexit we will no longer be able to blame anyone but ourselves.

    Our destiny will be in our hands and that will be immensely healthy.

    We are not going to dismantle the corpus of EU law on exit. On the contrary the objective of the repeal bill is to incorporate it. Our systems of standards will remain absolutely flush with the rest of the EU.

    We would not expect to pay for access to their markets any more than they would expect to pay for access to ours.

    And yes – once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly 350m per week. It would be a fine thing as many of us have pointed out if a lot of that money went on the NHS, provided we use that cash injection to modernise and make the most of new technology.

    The NHS is one of the great unifying institutions of our country. It is the top political priority of the British people and under the leadership of Jeremy Hunt it is indeed the top priority of the Conservative party. Coming out of the EU will give us an opportunity to drive that message home.

    And as we take back control of our cash, and our borders, and our laws we will of course not jettison what is good. We will keep environmental and social protections that are fair and wise.

    But over time we will be able to diverge from the great accumulated conglomerate, to act with regulatory freedom. I mean no disrespect to the authors and champions of the single market – but whether you believe such notable authorities as Peter Mandelson, who once claimed that EU regulation cost us 4 per cent of GDP, or Gordon Brown, who said the cost was nearer 7 per cent, it is fair to say that it has not produced the growth or the synergies that were originally forecast.

    Outside the EU there are obvious opportunities – in agriculture, fisheries, in the setting of indirect taxation. At the stroke of a pen, the Chancellor will be able to cut VAT on tampons; often demanded by parliament but – absurdly – legally impossible to deliver.

    We will have an immigration that suits the UK, not slamming the door – but welcoming the talent we need, from the EU and around the world. Of course we will make sure that business gets the skills it needs, but business will no longer be able to use immigration as an excuse not to invest in the young people of this country.

    And I can think of obvious ways in which Brexit can help us tackle the housing crisis – perhaps the single biggest challenge for the younger generation.
    There may be ways of simplifying planning

    procedures, post-brexit, and abbreviating impact assessments – without in any way compromising the environment.

    It is often pointed out that the price of housing in certain parts of London may be increased by buyers from overseas. But there is no point in putting any kind of tax on foreign buyers, because the inhabitants of 27 other countries cannot legally be treated as foreign.

    No one would want a tax that discouraged international investment and stopped good developments from happening. No one would want to send a signal that the London market was closed.

    But it would at least be possible to have the argument. That is what we mean by taking back control.

    Outside the EU we will be on our mettle – obliged to set policy to prioritise areas where the UK is strong. One of the advantages of investing in the NHS – if we combine that investment with reform – is that we can turbo charge the role of our health service in driving bioscience.

    The NHS is a national asset whose data banks record the dizzying range of diseases that our flesh is heir to. Freed from EU regimes – often cumbersome and hard to change - we will be able to accelerate our work on gene therapy – an infant science, now taking its first faltering steps, whose potential is gigantic.

    Britain is already at the forefront of this, and we can lengthen our lead.

    We should seize the opportunity of Brexit to reform our tax system. Andy Haldane the Bank of England's chief economist argued in 2015 that our system is currently skewed so as to discourage investment. He believes that reform could raise output by around 20 per cent.

    We should use the opportunities afforded by historically low interest rates to give this country the infrastructure it deserves – and especially in London, the most dynamic and productive urban economy in Europe, where things seem frankly to have gone a bit quiet since the departure of the last Mayor.

    There is an agenda that will help to drive the UK economy for decades – new road tunnels, new bridges, Crossrail 2, tube extensions; and the housing developments made possible by this infrastructure.

    This is our chance to catch the wave of new technology, and to put Britain in the lead. In the next 20 years I believe traditional car companies will vanish as we switch to automated vehicles. Millions of jobs will go, and millions of new jobs will be created. Traditional supply chains will be disrupted, and new supply chains will be created.

    And of course the instinct of the EU commission will always be to protect against that revolution, to regulate, to muffle that change – listening as they always do to the vested interests of the big EU manufacturers.

    People often ask themselves why the EU has failed to produced a single major tech giant on the scale of those to be found in America. Well, part of the answer may be found in the statist and top-down approach that characterises the thinking of the Commission.

    Have you ever wondered what happened to Minitel, the state-owned and managed French equivalent of Google? Or what good was done by all those directives – dating from the early 90s – on les reseaux telematiques? Did they produce a European champion? Pas encore.

    There are in fact four zones of the world where big tech investments are made: Boston, silicon valley, Shanghai, and the triangle formed by London, Oxford and Cambridge.

    Let us have the self-confidence to experiment, to be at the cutting-edge. My brother Jo Johnson is finalising the candidates for the location of a new UK space centre, and this government is investing in the truly revolutionary Sabre project in Hampshire – a system that promises radically to reduce our journey times around this earth.

    We are investing in the new battery technology that will be part of the driverless revolution. And this country already boasts companies such as Deep Mind, one of the most promising Artificial Intelligence companies in the world.

    And these are just some of the most obvious areas for the future development of UK technology. What we cannot now know – as the great French economist Bastiat observed in the 19th century – is the unseen opportunity cost of the way the UK economic structure has evolved to fit the EU over the last four and a half decades, and the productive ways that it might now evolve.

    But we do know one thing: that we will be able to get on and do free trade deals, to campaign for free trade that has lifted billions out of poverty and that so badly needs a new champion.

    We will be able to intensify old friendships around the world, not least with fast-growing commonwealth economies, and to build a truly Global Britain.

    And Britain’s success will not be a bad thing for a friends across the channel. On the contrary, it will mean a bigger market in the UK for everything from Italian cars to German wine. And we will be there for our friends and partners.

    We will be the largest military power in Europe, and with our growing defence budget we are now making an ever more vivid commitment to the defence of Europe – like the new deployments in Estonia - and to our common European ideals and values.

    That is the goal the PM has set out – a strong EU buttressed and supported by a strong UK, and linked by a deep and special partnership founded on the mutual benefits of free trade.

    We have a glorious future – but hardly any of this would be possible under the bizarre and incoherent plans of the Labour party. It seems that Corbyn has chickened out.

    He has already betrayed the students who voted for him, dropping his absurd pledge to cancel all their debts. Now he is betraying the millions of labour voters who voted leave and who thought – on june 8 – that he also wanted to leave, to get on and deliver the will of the people.

    (for a man of such unbending lefty principle, he seems to have a remarkable beardy ability to speak out both sides of his mouth)

    Now it appears he wants to remain in the single market and the customs union. In other words he would make a complete mockery of brexit, and turn an opportunity into a national humiliation. It would be the worst of both worlds, with the UK turned into a vassal state – taking direction from the EU, but with no power to influence the EU’s decisions.

    It is a totally invertebrate position, and betrays a dismal lack of confidence in this country. I end on the point with which I began – that groundless and peculiar lack of confidence in Britain.

    I remember when the project for European citizenship was launched by Jacques Delors in the early 1990s – and at the time I thought it was a bit of a gimmick. I used to doubt that you could build such a thing as a European identity, out of the mosaic of states.

    I was indignant when they came out with the euro-passport, and when they said that all car number plates had to carry the 12 star flag: but I never thought that Brussels would succeed in its aim. I used to look at the Brussels bumper stickers saying “mon patrie c’est Europe” and think it was a bit of a laugh, and that they would never engender a genuine euro-patriotism, or compete with people’s natural feeling for their own country.

    I have to say that I am now not so sure. I think I was complacent. I look at so many young people with the 12 stars lipsticked to their faces, and I am troubled with the thought that people are beginning to have genuinely split allegiances.

    And when people say that they feel they have more in common with others in Europe than with people who voted leave I want to say, but that is part of the reason why people voted leave.

    You don’t have to be some tub-thumping nationalist to worry that a transnational sense of allegiance can weaken the ties between us; and you don’t have to be an out and out nationalist to feel an immense pride in this country, and what it can do.

    We have the biggest financial centre in this hemisphere – and by common consent we will still have one by the time the Brexit controversy is a distant memory. I have seen the prophets of doom proved wrong so many times.

    They said it would be a disaster if we left the ERM in 1992 and then if we failed to join the euro in 1999, and then in the 2008 crash, when they prophesied that the bankers would flee to Zug and Zurich; and London has sailed serenely through, riding the waves of adversity as we have for centuries. Look at Canary Wharf – a banking district now bigger than Frankfurt itself.

    Look at our universities – the best in the world, with just one Cambridge college responsible not just for more Nobel prizes than France and indeed for more than Russia and China combined.

    It is an astonishing fact that of all the Kings Queens presidents and Prime ministers in the world, one in seven were educated in this country – and I am proud to have expanded the amazing Chevening and Commonwealth scholarship schemes that bring so many talented people into this country’s system, and which will ensure that the leaders of the world will be educated in Britain – and have a natural understanding of and affinity for Britain – for generations to come.

    Just stand on the streets of central London and listen to the excitement of the tourists – with more international visitors to our city than any other capital, including Paris and New York.

    When you go to the British museum you visit the world’s greatest thesaurus of global culture, and a place that attracts more visitors than the entire tourist industry of ten other EU countries that I will not mention; and don’t you tell me that we are turning our backs on the world. It is not physically or emotionally possible.

    I was proud to be mayor of the greatest city on earth, and I believe we can be the greatest country on earth. Indeed a recent estimate by the Henry Jackson Society just this month made a tally of the various nations’ political, economic and cultural throw-weight, and concluded that with the second biggest contribution to Nato, with our forces deployed around the world, with our bankers our chefs our scientists our poets and yes our diplomats Britain at the beginning of the 21st century was the second greatest power on earth after America.

    And since I regard the United States as one of the finest ideological and cultural creations of this country – even if involuntarily – I am prepared to live with that assessment.

    We have more British people living overseas – a bigger diaspora – than any other OECD country – a great bright warm six million strong constellation of British minds and British hearts – a pulse in the eternal mind no less, giving somewhere back the thoughts by Britain given, as Rupert Brooke almost puts it: aid workers, journalists, businesspeople, artists, helping in myriad ways to make the world a better place.

    We have the youngest and fastest growing population of any major EU economy, and on current estimates we will be the most populous country in western Europe by the middle of this century.

    If we organise, if we plan, if we build the homes and the infrastructure we need, if we give our young people the skills and the confidence that they could so easily acquire – then we can also ensure that this country is not just the place where everyone wants to come and live – but the place with the highest standard of living, with the per capita GDP, the productivity and the quality of life that we deserve.

    That means insisting on a culture that is pro-business and pro-enterprise, but one that is so dynamic that fat cats can no longer sit unpunished in their jobs when they let everyone down.

    It means simplifying regulation, and cutting taxes wherever we can – but also ensuring that everyone in a company is decently paid because that is the way to boost productivity.

    I am not saying that all this will be some kind of cinch. I do not underestimate the scale of the task ahead as we take back control of our destiny.

    All I say is that they are in grievous error all those who write off this country, who think we don’t have it in us, who think that we lack the nerve and the confidence to tackle the task ahead.

    They have been proved wrong before, and believe me they will be proved wrong again.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #766
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Good piece by BoJo.
    Well there you have it Americans, you are all hopeless traitors to your home states for feeling proud to be American.

    It's so because Bojo the Clown said it, and as we all know Bojo only speaks the truth, except for the times when he simply makes it up.

    But still wondering Randyboy; what kind of Brexit is it your oracle actually thinks we're willing to make a deal on?
    Congratulations America

  17. #767
    But... but that's not a good piece
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    But... but that's not a good piece
    Now that you mention it; it's the kind of tripe we have come to expect from the Joker in Chief at the FO. It could have been an early draft of a speech by Goebbels about Blut und Boden if it weren't for the mention of Britain every now and then.

    I picture in my head now BoJo belting out 'Wolt Ihr den totalen Brexit' a couple of times to the boisterous standing ovations of his comrades in arms at the CP party conference.
    Congratulations America

  19. #769
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    It means simplifying regulation, and cutting taxes wherever we can – but also ensuring that everyone in a company is decently paid because that is the way to boost productivity.
    In other news, pigs were seen flying over New Hampshire.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  20. #770
    Ignoring the flagrant Godwin.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    But... but that's not a good piece
    Why not?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #771
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Ignoring the flagrant Godwin.


    Why not?
    Because it's a blatant attempt by a Tory windbag at bringing down your government in the middle of what probably are the most important negatiations for your country in half a century?
    Congratulations America

  22. #772
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Why not?
    Was Boris Johnson drunk or “on something” when he wrote his 4,000-word magnum opus on Brexit for the Daily Telegraph, published this weekend? Probably not. He didn’t need to be. Rarely, if ever, has a senior cabinet minister, dealing with matters of the greatest urgency, written so vapidly, or in such rambling fashion, about the future direction of his country. What did he think he was doing? Those who know him assume he was making a thinly-disguised leadership bid, or at least throwing his hat back in the ring. But how much longer can he go on like this?

    His essay is a masterclass in nonsense and non-sequiturs. We don’t need to dwell on the obvious. He wants us out of the European Union as soon as possible and has no time for the single market or the customs union. Fair enough. And the Britain he sees emerging from Brexit will be a global champion of, well … everything. Let’s hope he’s right. It is in the detail of his argument that the Devil lurks.


    First off, he wishes his readers to know that the 17.4 million voters who voted Leave in the referendum “weren’t fools, you know” – which must come as a relief to them. They weren’t stupid. “They weren’t as bad as some would have you believe. They were right, and even if you think they were wrong, I hope you agree that it is our duty, as democrats, to fulfil the mandate they gave us.”


    Not stupid. Not “as bad as some would have you believe.” Talk about damning with faint praise. But even if they were wrong, the rest of us are, for some reason, duty bound to follow them up the garden path.


    To do the wrong thing for the right reason. Boris’s inversion of Eliot could be the definition of populism.


    A little further along, he observes of the UK: “Our infrastructure is too expensive – and takes far longer than France or other countries.” What does that even mean? Does he mean that French trains go faster, or does he mean it takes longer in the UK than in France to get things done? Either way, given that both countries are members of the European Union, whose fault is that? It sounds as if we’d be better off living in France.


    But I digress. As indeed does he.


    “Our vocational training is often superb – but still not inspirational, and we have yet to find a way of persuading middle-class kids that they might be just as well off getting a skill as a degree.” You think? So whose fault is that? Jean-Claude Juncker’s? What has our obsession with sending everyone to university got to do with the EU?


    Moving on, Boris notes that the UK doesn’t conduct enough basic research in science. “I am afraid we still have too many schools that are content with second-best. The result of all these failings – over decades – is that we have low productivity: lower than France or Germany.” So, again, France and Germany are performing much better than we are? But how can that be? Have they secretly left the EU?


    Soon, we pull up at the motherload of the Leave argument, as featured on the notorious battle bus. This is what we have been waiting for. “Once we have settled our accounts, we will take back control of roughly £350 million per week. It would be a fine thing, as many of us have pointed out, if a lot of that money went on the NHS, provided we use that cash injection to modernise and make the most of new technology.”


    Quite so, except that the £350 million is not £350m. Even the Government recognises this. It is at most £200m (£3 a week per head) and is the amount due to Brussels from the country that during its 43 years of EU membership went from being the Sick Man of Europe to fifth-largest economy in the world. If all members states were net recipients of cash from the EU budget, the result would be a ponzi scheme. As it is, the £350m, as such, is nothing other than a myth.


    From the absurd to the ridiculous, Boris next informs us that, post-Brexit, “at the stroke of a pen,” the Chancellor could cut the VAT on tampons. “This is often demanded by Parliament,” he tells us, “but – absurdly – it is legally impossible to deliver.” In fact, it was agreed at an EU summit in Brussels in March, 2016. And even if it wasn’t, is that a reason to leave the European Union? At least he didn’t mention straight bananas.


    And so to the housing crisis. “It is often pointed out that the price of housing in certain parts of London may be pushed up by buyers from overseas. But there is no point in putting any kind of tax on foreign buyers, because the inhabitants of 27 other countries cannot legally be treated as foreign.”


    Rubbish. The truth is that the foreigners in question are overwhelmingly from Russia, the Gulf states, Africa and South Asia. There is no reason such buyers cannot be dealt with under existing UK law. It just requires the Government to act. And if purely domestic legislation were to be passed, it would apply not only to UK investors, but to all EU buyers on an equal basis.


    The Foreign Secretary next informs us that Britain is at the forefront of research on gene therapy, only to add that we are somehow hamstrung by red tape. So, we are ahead of the pack, yet held back by those pen-pushers in Brussels. It makes no sense.


    Pausing only to point out that London has “gone a bit quiet” since he ceased being mayor (tell that to Sadiq Khan), Boris is keen to discover what happened to Minitel, “the state-owned and managed French equivalent of Google”. (Answer, it was 1970s technology that got left behind by the digital revolution.) What good, he wants to know, was all that talk in Brussels in the early Nineties about information networks? Did it produce a European champion? “Pas encore.”


    This is the point at which he divulges that one of the four zones of the world in which large-scale high-tech investments are made is the UK, specifically “the triangle formed by London, Oxford and Cambridge”. He does not say in what way this welcome development was held up by Britain’s membership of the EU. He simply implies that with the dead hand of Europe lifted, our native genius will flourish like never before. Google should obviously watch out. The British are coming (again).


    And when they do come, the lift-off, apparently, will be terrific. “My brother, Jo Johnson, is finalising the candidates for the location of a new UK space centre, and this Government is investing in the truly revolutionary Sabre project in Hampshire – a system that promises radically to reduce our journey times around this Earth.”


    The British in orbit: a tantalising prospect. But no mention of the fact that going on for half of the top scientists and technicians behind the UK’s high-tech revolution are foreign, the majority of them citizens of the 27.


    Lest – lest? – he sound jingoistic, Boris is quick to point out that Britain’s success “will not be a bad thing for our friends across the Channel.” On the contrary, “it will mean a bigger market in the UK for everything from Italian cars to German wine.” Brilliant. It used to be German cars and Italian wine, but what the Hell!


    And so to the straight boasting. “We will be the largest military power in Europe, and with our growing defence budget we are now making an ever-more vivid commitment to the defence of Europe – like the new deployments in Estonia [800 soldiers] – and to our common European ideals and values.”


    Never mind that our costly new aircraft carriers have no planes yet and that half our warships are out of commission, or that the Army is smaller than at any time since the rise of Napoleon. Britain, “as the second-greatest power on Earth after America,” is on the move, and the world had better bally well show us some respect.


    Boris next gives us a glimpse into his days as a correspondent in Brussels for the Telegraph. “I used to look at the Brussels bumper stickers saying “Mon patrie, c’est Europe” and think it was a bit of a laugh, and that they would never engender a genuine Euro-patriotism, or compete with people’s natural feelings for their own country.”


    But – mon Dieu! – he was wrong. “I have to say that I am now not so sure. I think I was complacent. I look at so many young people with the 12 stars lipsticked on their faces and I am troubled with the thought that people are beginning to have genuinely split allegiances.


    “And when people say that they feel they have more in common with others in Europe than with people who voted Leave, I want to say: ‘But that is part of the reason why people voted Leave.’ ”


    So! Millions of young people identified with Europe, and that is why we had to get out. What sort of an argument is that?


    The Boris Memorandum, all 4,000 words of it, is scrappy, juvenile and incoherent. It was written – almost certainly in a single session – by an insecure minister desperate to prove that he has a vision for his country but is in fact all over the place, suffering, it seems, from early onset political dementia. He should resign, and if he doesn’t, he should be helped on his way. Our Foreign Secretary is a national embarrassment
    https://reaction.life/boris-memorand...le-incoherent/

    That's why.

  23. #773
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Why not?
    If one of posted that on here, I'd probably think it was a bad post that they'd just bashed out without thinking it through.

    If that's the level of thinking going into the government's brexit strategy then we may be in more trouble than we previously thought.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  24. #774
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Ignoring the flagrant Godwin.


    Why not?
    You mean, apart from it being an amateurish and transparent attempt at advancing a future leadership bid by undermining his party & govt. and distancing himself from their policies without offering any concrete and workable solutions for which he may be held accountable?

    Apart from the takedown Gogo posted or any of the dozens of scathing critiques?

    Apart from the near-total lack of substance (truthful substance, that is)?

    Apart from how some of those paragraphs immediately conjure up lurid images of Boris Johnson channeling Norm Macdonald miming autoerotic asphyxiation?

    I... er, I dunno
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  25. #775
    Boris's entire premise seems to be based around the following notion: Britain is a strong country, therefore Britain can survive and thrive outside of the EU.

    Here is the reason this is bollocks: being a strong or weak has nothing to do with whether or not it is better for a country to be in or out of the EU. Germany is a strong country but is undoubtedly better off inside the EU: being in the EU just amplifies Germany's inherent power. Greece is a weak country, but for them joining the EU was a massive mistake. He lists a load of areas where Britain has strength: finance, tech and so forth. He says nothing about how leaving the EU is going to help those areas. He even has the gall to mention science, when any British scientist will tell you that being cut off from various EU science programs is going to make their jobs and careers a whole lot harder.

    I'm not going to go into the implicit "co-operation is for weaklings" attitude, and what it says about whatever form of neurosis Tories are suffering from. I leave that as an exercise to the reader.

    He's also indulges in some kind of weird variant of the gamblers fallacy: because predictions that there would be an immediate economic impact of the Brexit vote were wrong all other predictions that Brexit is going to be a bad thing are also wrong. Despite Brexit not going terribly wrong rather hinging on them successfully negotiating a deal with the rest of the EU, and also successfully negotiating new deals with other, non-specified, powers to replace what we've lost with the EU and them not having done either of those things yet.

    And giving every indication of not being capable of doing so, Exhibit A being the attitudes displayed in this article, assuming it wasn't tapped out while drunk in about an hour, which it might well of been.

    In short, Boris Johnson is an utter muppet whose approach to Brexit is a combination of propaganda reels from World War 2 ("Britain can make it!") and outright magical thinking and probably isn't fit to be Minister of Paperclips, let alone foreign policy and the country needs a delusional fantasist like him as Prime Minister like it needs a whole in it's head.

    He also wrote this:

    We are investing in the new battery technology that will be part of the driverless revolution.
    How does batteries help driverless cars? Is... is he confusing electric vehicles with driverless vehicles?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  26. #776
    Britain is extremely strong in the global paperclip sector.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  27. #777
    Senior Member
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    Funny how BoJo is allowed to stay after what are effectively promises to the people that aren't in the CP GE platform. Does that mean that the rot that started in external relations now also has started to affect the way the country is run internally? Can we expect more of this? Transport Secretary announcing a highspeed link running east-west? Home office deciding to introduce mandatory ID cards? Treasury starting its own money presses?

    Really Randy, can you give us one good reason why Boris Johnson, a cabinet minister, should be allowed to push budgettary spending the way he did?
    Congratulations America

  28. #778
    Boris should be allowed to secede.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  29. #779
    What has Boris said that contradicts any of the Tory manifesto?

    If the transport secretary announced a high speed rail link from East to West (specifically Leeds to Liverpool) I'd think that was a great idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #780
    Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    What has Boris said that contradicts any of the Tory manifesto?

    If the transport secretary announced a high speed rail link from East to West (specifically Leeds to Liverpool) I'd think that was a great idea.
    Where in the manifesto of the Conservative Party does it say that the NHS will get 350 million a week extra? Are you really claiming cabinet minsiters should announce major policy changes unilaterally in newspaper editorials?
    Congratulations America

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