Brexit Begins

[Hazir]

Boris should be allowed to secede.

Did you see that latest gem about how triggering article 50 was a blunder? Another example of how these Brits are treating Brexit as something that is purely up to their choices. As if the entire EU27 was going to sit by on the sidelines as the Brits were publicly getting ready to screw us over

If there's one thing this is teaching us, it's that we can't trust the British political class at all. I think any deal without solid oversight by EU courts should be off the table.

[RandBlade]

Where in the manifesto of the Conservative Party does it say that the NHS will get 350 million a week extra? Are you really claiming cabinet minsiters should announce major policy changes unilaterally in newspaper editorials?

Where in Boris's article does it say "that the NHS will get 350 million a week extra"?

I quoted the entire article so you should be able to find the passage very easily.

[Hazir]

Ah, you've decided to use the flimsy built in excuse there; BoJo the clown was smart enough to merely strongly imply that the 350 million could go to the NHS, rather than explicitly saying it would. Too clever by a bit indeed. But that doesn't polish away the fact dear Randyboy that BoJo states there is 350 million to be re-distributed and makes suggestions about where that money should go that have not been vetted with PM nor Cabinet.

So in the end we're still in the same point; when did it become acceptable for Cabinet ministers to govern by column in a daily newspaper, in contradiction to Cabinet policies.

Please don't take us to be as stupid as not knowing the money isn't there to start with. Because that's not relevant; Bojo is declaring the re-distribution of 10 billion pounds.

[RandBlade]

He said the same thing that he said before with the Vote Leave campaign, the same thing which May if she'd had an ounce of common sense would have said during the General Election. Maybe then she wouldn't have thrown away Cameron's hard won majority and would have some authority right now.

It became appropriate the moment the PM called an unnecessary election three years early, chickened out of the debates in the election she'd called, threw away a 20 point lead in the polls, caused dozens of her colleagues to become unemployed, had to chuck a couple of billion pounds at the DUP to stay in Downing Street and made sure that she had no authority to reshuffle any of her cabinet.

Some of the 10 billion pounds should go to the NHS.

[Hazir]

He said the same thing that he said before with the Vote Leave campaign, the same thing which May if she'd had an ounce of common sense would have said during the General Election. Maybe then she wouldn't have thrown away Cameron's hard won majority and would have some authority right now.

It became appropriate the moment the PM called an unnecessary election three years early, chickened out of the debates in the election she'd called, threw away a 20 point lead in the polls, caused dozens of her colleagues to become unemployed, had to chuck a couple of billion pounds at the DUP to stay in Downing Street and made sure that she had no authority to reshuffle any of her cabinet.

Some of the 10 billion pounds should go to the NHS.

What are you trying to say with this rant? Wasn't there an election? Wasn't there a manifesto? Didn't Bojo accept a cabinet position? Is the budget a collection of newspaper opinion pieces written by cabinet ministers on their side jobs?

[RandBlade]

Yes there was an election which was all about May and she lost. She called an election to increase her mandate and authority and she lost. She wanted a massive majority and she lost. She doesn't have any majority anymore.

[Flixy]

Yes there was an election which was all about May and she lost. She called an election to increase her mandate and authority and she lost. She wanted a massive majority and she lost. She doesn't have any majority anymore.

So then you're fine with a cabinet member switching to a platform his party was not elected on nor is moving towards Labour's position who took those seats the conservatives lost? Man, and you complained about PR parties not following through on all their party's platforms.

[RandBlade]

What in the Conservative manifesto has Boris gone against?

It is not only not against the Tory manifesto to increase spending on the NHS, increasing spending on the NHS is a manifesto commitment. Boris's proposals honour that.

In fact it is long-established Tory policy. During WWII it was the Conservative Prime Minister who suggested on our side the creation of the NHS and although we lost the election held during WWII in 1945 leading to Labour creating what all parties had agreed upon, the Tory party is the only major party of government to have increased NHS spending consistently. Every other major party of government has cut NHS spending some years, whereas we have increased NHS spending every single year we have been in government.

[gogobongopop]

https://twitter.com/PJTheEconomist/status/910033210981072897



(how do I embed tweets?)

[Hazir]

Yes there was an election which was all about May and she lost. She called an election to increase her mandate and authority and she lost. She wanted a massive majority and she lost. She doesn't have any majority anymore.

FYI Theresa May won the elections, she is the leader of the Conservative Party and she is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom in whose government Bojo serves. So even though we may question her judgement of character that doesn't mean that Bojo the clown can act as if nothing of that matters.

[Hazir]

What in the Conservative manifesto has Boris gone against?

It is not only not against the Tory manifesto to increase spending on the NHS, increasing spending on the NHS is a manifesto commitment. Boris's proposals honour that.

In fact it is long-established Tory policy. During WWII it was the Conservative Prime Minister who suggested on our side the creation of the NHS and although we lost the election held during WWII in 1945 leading to Labour creating what all parties had agreed upon, the Tory party is the only major party of government to have increased NHS spending consistently. Every other major party of government has cut NHS spending some years, whereas we have increased NHS spending every single year we have been in government.

The money he is re-distributing has been promised already to its present recipients.

[Hazir]

Hey Randy, enjoy the following 18 months with a free trade deal with Canada. But don't get too used to it, because once you Brexit, you're out of CETA too.

[RandBlade]

We'll see.

[Hazir]

We'll see.

What's that supposed to mean? You don't believe in Brexit any longer? Because the moment Brexit happens you're booted out of CETA.

Other question; why is your PM holding speeches in Florence when we could have been discussing your departure through the proper channels. Is it because you lot still don't understand that you don't merit more than the time of our appointed negotiator?

[Steely Glint]

Yes there was an election which was all about May and she lost. She called an election to increase her mandate and authority and she lost. She wanted a massive majority and she lost. She doesn't have any majority anymore.

What the hell is this nonsense? She won the election. That's why she's Prime Minister, and Corbyn isn't. She might have lost face, but she still won the election.

[Hazir]

What the hell is this nonsense? She won the election. That's why she's Prime Minister, and Corbyn isn't. She might have lost face, but she still won the election.

Well if the briefings about her speech tomorrow is accurate, she's not going to win any friends claiming making Brexit a success is a shared responsibility.

[RandBlade]

What's that supposed to mean? You don't believe in Brexit any longer? Because the moment Brexit happens you're booted out of CETA.

No, I believe that something will be agreed to extend CETA.

Other question; why is your PM holding speeches in Florence when we could have been discussing your departure through the proper channels. Is it because you lot still don't understand that you don't merit more than the time of our appointed negotiator?

Because she's Prime Minister of the United Kingdom not some minor functionary. If she wants to give a speech she can give a speech.

What the hell is this nonsense? She won the election. That's why she's Prime Minister, and Corbyn isn't. She might have lost face, but she still won the election.

Of course she's won the election, but she lost compared to expectations and has lost face and moral authority as a result amongst her colleagues. She's too weak now to act as a President instead of a Prime Minister. She needs to juggle doing what she wants and keeping her colleagues on board.

[RandBlade]

Well if the briefings about her speech tomorrow is accurate, she's not going to win any friends claiming making Brexit a success is a shared responsibility.

If the briefings about her speech tomorrow are accurate then for the first time in a while I think May is doing the right thing.

The EU have set up a perverse and impossible sequencing to demands. Wanting to know about money without knowing what the money is in exchange for. Wanting to know about the border but without knowing what the trade deal is that will determine how the border will work.

By making a generous offer on money but linking it directly to trade talks is a reasonable way to break the deadlock. He who pays the piper calls the tune and if you want our money you need to start talking trade.

[Aimless]

This would make sense if the EU considered the divorce bill to be a payment for future benefits rather than a settling of accounts. We all know why May is giving a speech instead of negotiating: her negotiators are absurdly incompetent and her primary interest is in appealing to the public. It's also possible she wanted to visit Florence I guess

It will be interesting to see whether or not the issues brought up in Barnier's speech will be addressed and also to see the EU's immediate response.

[Hazir]

This would make sense if the EU considered the divorce bill to be a payment for future benefits rather than a settling of accounts. We all know why May is giving a speech instead of negotiating: her negotiators are absurdly incompetent and her primary interest is in appealing to the public. It's also possible she wanted to visit Florence I guess

It will be interesting to see whether or not the issues brought up in Barnier's speech will be addressed and also to see the EU's immediate response.

No time to read the actual speech but it almost seems like a member of the British government has made a first step towards telling Brits the truth about Brexit.

[RandBlade]

That's the most positive I think I've heard you be. Makes a refreshing change.

This would make sense if the EU considered the divorce bill to be a payment for future benefits rather than a settling of accounts.

Except there aren't really much in the way of accounts to settle. The EU doesn't want a black hole in its accounts caused by our leaving but that doesn't mean that the hole is ours to fill.

By filling it we alleviate a problem for the EU. In return we want to receive certain limited benefits that we would have been paying for had we not chosen to leave.

[Hazir]

You can't make it up. Civil servants making certain that they said the UK isn't ready for a no deal Brexit.

[RandBlade]

Good. The Civil Service is doing its job then, it should be there to challenge ministers and bring up concerns and not buy into an "it'll be alright Jack" attitude.

[Aimless]

You can't make it up. Civil servants making certain that they said the UK isn't ready for a no deal Brexit.

Tragicomic.

[Aimless]

No time to read the actual speech but it almost seems like a member of the British government has made a first step towards telling Brits the truth about Brexit.

If so, it's a pretty small and unsteady step. Full of platitudes, very little substance, riddled with contradictions, few if any signs of concrete progress on core issues. Even the request for an additional two year transition period is problematic, although I guess it may be regarded as some sort of progress. Invited EU officials and journalists seem to have been justified in declining the invitation. One can only hope there have been some changes behind the scenes that may help negotiations move forward.

[Aimless]

https://www.google.se/search?q=UK+cr...it+uncertainty

The Treasury's response... ahahaha

[gogobongopop]

I saw somebody say that the additional interest we have to pay because of this downgrade now outweighs the cost of EU membership. That's not true, right? (I'm very ignorant about credit ratings) If it is true, given the other tweet I posted a few posts up (about us being down £300 a week rather than "up" "£350"), that would be pretty, well, shit.

That's nonsense though, right?

[GGT]

omg it's gogo! Nice to see you again

[gogobongopop]

Ola!

[Hazir]

I saw somebody say that the additional interest we have to pay because of this downgrade now outweighs the cost of EU membership. That's not true, right? (I'm very ignorant about credit ratings) If it is true, given the other tweet I posted a few posts up (about us being down £300 a week rather than "up" "£350"), that would be pretty, well, shit.

That's nonsense though, right?

I doubt the cost for your government would go up that much, but the total for the British economy? Very possible indeed.