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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #1711
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    The lies your PM is going to dish out in an hour or so are much worse.
    Congratulations America

  2. #1712
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    So Randy, does BETA make you happy?
    Congratulations America

  3. #1713
    Pointless question. Whatever the outcome, it will make him happy and it will be what he wanted all along.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  4. #1714
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Pointless question. Whatever the outcome, it will make him happy and it will be what he wanted all along.
    You might think that, but I enjoy the snapshots of his immutable convictions as they change.
    Congratulations America

  5. #1715
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  6. #1716
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Pointless question. Whatever the outcome, it will make him happy and it will be what he wanted all along.
    Why would you say that? Apart from when I've changed my opinion (which I'm happy to acknowledge as a changed opinion not what I thought all along) I'm consistent.

    I'm also quite willing to say when I'm not happy with what we've got. That's been a rather consistent thing for recent decades actually.

    I fully don't expect to get everything I want - but then we never have had everything I want so there's no change there.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #1717
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    Interestingly breximaniacs haven't written angry opinion pieces about being punished by the USA.
    Congratulations America

  8. #1718
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Why would you say that? Apart from when I've changed my opinion (which I'm happy to acknowledge as a changed opinion not what I thought all along) I'm consistent.

    I'm also quite willing to say when I'm not happy with what we've got. That's been a rather consistent thing for recent decades actually.

    I fully don't expect to get everything I want - but then we never have had everything I want so there's no change there.
    Funny though is that you are getting pretty much what I said you could get out of Brexit over a decade ago.
    Congratulations America

  9. #1719
    You also said that we had no power in the EU but out of the Eurozone and would be rule takers there as the Eurozone would make all decisions.

    You've not given a reason yet why we should stay in the EU under those circumstances.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #1720
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    What? "You had no power in the EU"?

    I'm pretty sure Hazir never said that.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  11. #1721
    He did. He was very, very clear that we were powerless if we didn't join the Euro as the Euro nations would decide on a position between themselves in advance and then vote it through as a fait accompli that we had no say over.

    Bear in mind this was in the debate over whether the UK should join the Euro or not. We weren't debating Euro membership - at the time I believed only a crank or loon would advocate leaving the EU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #1722
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    I see. What I also see: You suddenly believe Hazir. But not everything else.

    I'm deeply impressed. Then again, cherry picking is a national sport, or so I hear.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  13. #1723
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    I didn't say no power. I said the UK was being pushed into the margins. In the end it would have resulted in being a more or less powerless appendix. I have never disagreed with breximaniacs or their precursors about what the growth of federalism would mean for the nation state as a sovereign entity. I did and do think they are bonkers to think that a country the size of the UK can be really sovereign in the world of today.
    Congratulations America

  14. #1724
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    I see. What I also see: You suddenly believe Hazir. But not everything else.

    I'm deeply impressed. Then again, cherry picking is a national sport, or so I hear.
    I don't "suddenly" believe Hazir. I've been quite clear about what the turning point was.

    I said for a long time that I thought Cameron would achieve a good renegotiation in the same way that Thatcher won the rebate. Hazir said he wouldn't. But in the end Cameron didn't. Hazir was right, I was wrong. I'm not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong and I was wrong there. So why shouldn't that lead to a re-evaluation of other assumptions?

    Whether it was because he couldn't, didn't bother or whatever is immaterial. If even the threat of an upcoming referendum on membership wasn't sufficient to get some real change achieved then the reality is we weren't ever going to achieve any real change.

    Oddly enough had it been a flat in/out from the start I would probably have voted In. But by having the failed renegotiation that just showed that we were ultimately as Hazir had argued powerless to change the course of the EU. So fine, so be it. Go to Plan B - leave and control our own destiny.

    As for Hazir's remark about "bonkers to think that a country the size of the UK can be really sovereign in the world of today" ... the UK is a decent mid-sized nation on a global scale of course we can be. If much smaller nations against much bigger neighbours, like Canada against the USA, can be sovereign then why can't we be? Hazir seems to have some odd blinkers on just what size a nation the world's fifth/sixth largest economy actually is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #1725
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    Seems like you've missed how the USA is fucking over CANADA and Mexico in the most incredible way for no other reason than that Trump doesn't have the votes in congress to get out of NAFTA. Two midsized countries turned into pawns of internal political games of a bigger neighbor.

    As for your own country; that is also over the barrel in order to get an agreement in order to fly to the US. Let's see if how much kinder the EU will treat you.

    Not so long ago you thought that very little would happen as everyone was going to be practical about it. But once you let out a beast like sovereignty all of a sudden you get it thrown right back at you. The newest 'surprise' is the non-recognition of British driver's licenses after Brexit. You still believe it's going to stop before telling you to get a visum for travel to Europe?
    Congratulations America

  16. #1726
    Seems like you've missed how Canada is escaping the worst of Trump's madness by being a sovereign nation not part of the USA.

    Yes I do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #1727
    Interesting developments on the horizon in Switzerland:

    https://www.ft.com/content/17d840b6-...5-1ba1f72c2c11
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #1728
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Seems like you've missed how Canada is escaping the worst of Trump's madness by being a sovereign nation not part of the USA.

    Yes I do.
    LOL, just read the headlines and you'd know better. Read beyond them and you'd be horrified at how Canada is at the mercy of internal politics in the US.
    Congratulations America

  19. #1729
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Interesting developments on the horizon in Switzerland:

    https://www.ft.com/content/17d840b6-...5-1ba1f72c2c11
    It's quite inevitable that we'll not allow that situation to go on forever. I think the Swiss should be very worried about any referendum about FoM coming out as a rejection. Last time round we could allow them to fudge it, an outright end to FoM will mean an end to all treaties.
    Congratulations America

  20. #1730
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    LOL, just read the headlines and you'd know better. Read beyond them and you'd be horrified at how Canada is at the mercy of internal politics in the US.
    I do and I have family in Canada and travel there regularly. Not a single one of my relatives there is upset at the fact they're not a part of the USA. Something tells me that if anyone surveyed Canadians asking if they should give up their sovereignty and join the USA the answer would be a resounding and emphatic no.

    Honestly the fact that you think this is convincing just shows how warped and twisted your mentality is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #1731
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    That's not at all what Hazir said, you doofus.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  22. #1732
    You doofus he is making out that it would be "bonkers to think that a country [like Canada] can be really sovereign in the world of today".
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #1733
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    Everything is interconnected and you usually cannot act unilaterally without dire consequences. What's so hard to understand about that?
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  24. #1734
    Never said otherwise have I?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #1735
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    I think you're confused about a lot of the concepts involved which explains your constant non-comprehension of basic details.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  26. #1736
    I think you're condescending and ignorant. Not a pleasant combination.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #1737
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    The Russians no longer seem to be overly worried about killing people in the fully sovereign UK. What you gonna do about it?
    Congratulations America

  28. #1738
    I expect the same as we did a dozen years ago when they killed Alexander Litvinenko.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #1739
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I think you're condescending and ignorant. Not a pleasant combination.
    That's only because you literally cannot comprehend the things we say. And then try to make it look like you know best.

    I mean, you voted for this idiocy and your moronic government. That's not exactly something in your favour.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  30. #1740
    Having different politics to you isn't idiocy, you're just being a small-minded bigot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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