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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #1771
    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Just the 3rd highest selling newspaper in the land; behind the Sun and the free Metro.
    Metro is published by DMG, same as the Daily Mail. It's much the same shit as the DM just summarised into smaller chunks for commuters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  2. #1772
    Ah, I didn't know that. Even more influential in the anti-EU message then.

  3. #1773
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Metro is published by DMG, same as the Daily Mail. It's much the same shit as the DM just summarised into smaller chunks for commuters.
    The top newspapers in the UK--print and esp. digital--are preferred by Leavers and tend to promote Leave propaganda along with their regular menu of xenophobia, racism, hate, etc. A gammon is known by the company he keeps.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #1774
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    This thread summarizes what we know so far about a pretty astonishing series of potentially illegal shenanigans:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/Hugodixon...74160863367168

    However, it's important to remember that the people involved are as ignorant about laws as they are shady.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  5. #1775
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Oh man:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #1776
    The fact that people who worked on the leave campaign open admit that they lied and cheated speaks volumes.

    I'm not optimistic about anything changing though. Arguably the [advisory] referendum could be deemed invalid - but the country will literally implode if we have another. It's pretty fucked up.

    The only benefit I can see from all this is the lesson we're sending to other countries: never hold referendums. Just don't. Ever.

  7. #1777
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Well yes the fact there may have been a 0.6 million overspend will not sway any Leave voters when the spending caps were flouted by the government spending £9 million on pro-Remain propaganda immediately before the cap came in. Within the letter but not the spirit of the law.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35984991
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #1778
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    That is certainly an idiotic defense of covertly breaking the law and trying to keep the crime hidden.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #1779
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    You missed the word allegedly.

    As gogobongopop rightly recognised this is not of legal consequence since the referendum was advisory, this matters in the court of public opinion and in public opinion an alleged overspend that amounts to ~6% of the overspend by Remain that the government gave prematurely is not going to change opinions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #1780
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Oh, suddenly the referendum is advisory only!
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  11. #1781
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Well yes the fact there may have been a 0.6 million overspend will not sway any Leave voters when the spending caps were flouted by the government spending £9 million on pro-Remain propaganda immediately before the cap came in. Within the letter but not the spirit of the law.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politic...endum-35984991
    So it was legal then.

    And you may not think it's within the 'spirit' of the law, but there was absolutely no 'good spirit' about the lies, untruths and bullshit made by the leave campaign.

  12. #1782
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Oh, suddenly the referendum is advisory only!
    It always was legally. The government said all along it would do whatever the public decided and no government would survive not doing so but that's a different matter.
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    So it was legal then.

    And you may not think it's within the 'spirit' of the law, but there was absolutely no 'good spirit' about the lies, untruths and bullshit made by the leave campaign.
    And there was within the lies, untruths and bullshit made by the remain campaign?

    Maybe consider a moment the mote in your own eye?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #1783
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    There's no comparison. Worst of all, Leavers continue to lie.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #1784
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It always was legally. The government said all along it would do whatever the public decided and no government would survive not doing so but that's a different matter.
    And there was within the lies, untruths and bullshit made by the remain campaign?

    Maybe consider a moment the mote in your own eye?
    We've been through this. The "lies" you claim were forecasts that haven't been as extreme as predicted. Largely due, I might add, to the remedial action the BoE put in place immediately after.

    There is literally no comparison.

  15. #1785
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    There's no comparison. Worst of all, Leavers continue to lie.
    No, people continue to have different opinions to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #1786
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    Your problem is that your opinions on what Brexit is are by and large irrelevant besides consistently wrong. Since none of that can be news to you we can only assume that you condone the peddling of lies on the subject matter.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  17. #1787
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No, people continue to have different opinions to you.
    *shrug* Brexiters have lied and continue to lie to the public about costs, laws, logistics, their agreements, their assessments (see eg. lies about impact reports) etc. They also lie to negotiators. There is literally no comparison. You're doing the equivalent of defending Trump by saying that everybody lies sometimes. There is no comparison.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #1788
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No, people continue to have different opinions to you.
    Even this?
    Last edited by gogobongopop; 03-27-2018 at 07:25 AM.

  19. #1789
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    It's neither of the above. It's an ignorance displayed by both parties on the difference between wholesale and retail prices.

    The problem people are ignorant about is assuming the price they pay retail is the same as the price wholesale. If it was every single retailer in the country would go out of business! Instead retailers make a margin on top of the wholesale price and different industries have different models on how that works. Supermarkets can cope with rather thin (but still need some) margins other industries can not.

    My general rule of thumb is that 20% of what I sell is VAT. Of what remains one third goes on cost of goods sold (ex VAT), one third goes on labour and one third goes as margin for overheads and anything left over as profit.

    That means marginally over a quarter of the retail price is the cost of goods sold. A tariff or tax or duty or anything else won't cost the customer in the end just what the tax costs as it will be multipled to fit within the retailers budget.

    See as an immediate example on 6 April the sugar tax. Already many restaurants are printing on their drinks menus different prices for sugary soft drinks to sugar free ones with an asterisk saying from 6 April.

    The cost for me to buy Pepsi Postmix (syrup) is going up by over 30% wholesale! I will be passing on that tax with a margin plus VAT to my customers. I can't and won't absorb that tax myself and simply passing on the tax alone will break my budgets and not account for wastages etc that need accounting for too. I'm not increasing it by a full 30% but nor am I just increasing it by the tax plus VAT alone.
    Last edited by RandBlade; 03-27-2018 at 10:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #1790
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    But Randy, the biggest lie was about Brexit being possible for only the parts you didn't like.

    Despite being told that it wasn't going to happen. You knew that you would not even get a deal as good as Cameron was offered. Yet that is what you (were) promised by the politicians you chose to follow.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  21. #1791
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    In your eyes that was the biggest lie and in your eyes its not going to happen.

    In my eyes I expect a deal better than what Cameron was offered. The thing is we have different ideas about what defines better. That doesn't make either a lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #1792
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    You are completely delusional; not only has there never been such a chance, but also the reality of the 'negotiation process' is in the opposite direction.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  23. #1793
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Again only because you have a different interpretation of what defines better.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #1794
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    This is not a matter or opinion. The deal you can get is one within parameters set by us. The deal we were willing to give Cameron was the absolute maximum we would give to a member state. This maximum is now off the table to never return there again. The reality now is that for everything you want to keep, there is a price to pay. If we will let you keep it at any price at all.

    Nothing you take for granted today will automatically be yours on the day you're out. Absolutely nothing.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  25. #1795
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Irrelevant.

    You seem to be under the completely bizarre and incomprehensible misapprehension that we want more off you and that only more can be better.

    Of course we didn't vote to Leave the EU because we wanted more ...

    The issue isn't what we want to keep, its what we want to get rid of. We're not looking for a new "maximum" and why you think we want a maximum on the way out is beyond me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #1796
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    Let's try small words. There are things you like. You want to keep them. We will not let you keep them. Saying that you can keep them is a lie.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  27. #1797
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  28. #1798
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Let's try small words. There are things you like. You want to keep them. We will not let you keep them. Saying that you can keep them is a lie.
    Lets try one big word: negotiation.

    There will be give and take. Dropping things in a negotiation is not a lie.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #1799
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    There are no negotiations. You give us all we want in exchange for some face saving leeway. In stage one, two and now three of the process.

    There are no rows, no fights and whenever you imply having the freedom to decide something we nail you to your latest concession.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  30. #1800
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    I don't want to sell the hide yet, but I feel a bit celebratory.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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