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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #1801
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    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  2. #1802
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Nice and neutral source that "the48" in the total.

    Why not try using some real figures rather than anonymous blogs?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #1803
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  4. #1804
    This Vicious Cabaret Unheard Of's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Like in the USA, our ahistorical self-belief is much more important than anything that actually happened.
    Greetings, citizen! THE COMPUTER has made you a protector of the underground city of ALPHA COMPLEX. You will have lots of fun rooting out Communist mutant traitors. The Computer says so.

  5. #1805
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    All 3 allies plus others played a crucial role but on a forced choice question do you disagree Loki?

    With the greatest of respect it's not the Americans, they sat out half of WW2.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #1806
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    All 3 allies plus others played a crucial role but on a forced choice question do you disagree Loki?

    With the greatest of respect it's not the Americans, they sat out half of WW2.
    They sat in for the half where the Nazis were actually being defeated though. But I'd obviously go for the Russians (Or the Nazis themselves I suppose).
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  7. #1807
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    I haven't paid much attention to this thread. But it catches my attention when Brits (Rand) compare Brexit to WWII, and suggest they can win any war on their own without help from their allies....

  8. #1808
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I never said that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #1809
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    If it weren't for the British the Nazis would have won on the Western Front quite swiftly. The Americans wouldn't have had a launching pad to get involved.

    If it weren't for the Russians the Nazis wouldn't have been torn by 2 fronts and would have won in the East.

    If it weren't for the Americans Russia and the UK would have survived but Nazi dominance over Western and Central Europe would have become an ingrained stalemate.

    All 3 played a crucial role. The question is dumb by making it a forced choice but if I was forced to choose I agree with the public's ranking: Britain then Russia then America. Very close to saying Russia then Britain then America though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #1810
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    When Randy starts talking about how important his little island of the coast of Europe is it always reminds me of a caricature I once saw. In it you see an elephant and a mouse jumping up and down on a bridge. From the mouth of the mouse you see a text balloon with the text 'my my, aren't we making a lot of noise'
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #1811
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    If you disagree with anything I wrote then please specify what.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #1812
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    This is the dumbest argument ever and largely irrelevant to Brexit. You'd have a better point looking at romanticized notions of pre-war imperialism (see the ridiculous ideas about the commonwealth countries for example).
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  13. #1813
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Are you aiming that at me or Loki?

    I never claimed it was related to Brexit, it was Loki that did when he wrote This is why Britain voted to leave.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #1814
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Are you serious, Rand? Did Britain play a vital role? Sure. Was it anything on the scale of the USSR or US? Not even close. And these kind of warped beliefs about the past do make people believe that Britain can do just fine by itself.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #1815
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    I'm sure he'll be happy to take credit for the contributions of the nations under the British Boot at the time.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  16. #1816
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Are you serious, Rand? Did Britain play a vital role? Sure. Was it anything on the scale of the USSR or US? Not even close. And these kind of warped beliefs about the past do make people believe that Britain can do just fine by itself.
    Yes I'm serious. And just with Germany specifically not Japan.

    America only turned up to half the war. By the time it did Hitler's advance had already been halted in the West following the Luftwaffes defeat in the Battle of Britain.

    Britain did do just fine by itself. It took the belated assistance of America to liberate the rest of western Europe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #1817
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    Itself and an army of 2.5m Indians.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  18. #1818
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    And Australians, Canadians and others yes. They were part of our Empire at the time yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #1819
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    America only turned up to half the war.
    That's a weird logic. Since when is contribution solely measured by the time someone spends at something?
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  20. #1820
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    Not like we didn't already know Randy, but thanks for the confirmation. Somehow, in your heart you can't differentiate between England and Empire.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  21. #1821
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    That's a weird logic. Since when is contribution solely measured by the time someone spends at something?
    Who said solely? I for one didn't. It does matter but not solely.

    There are other ways to measure it like number of casualties, number of people who served etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...nch_of_service

    17.8 million served from the British Empire and Commonwealth, 16.3 million from the US Armed Forces.

    580k were killed/missing from British Empire and Commonwealth, 407k from US Armed Forces.

    475k were wounded from British Empire and Commonwealth, 671k from US Armed Forces.

    318k POWs from British Empire and Commonwealth, 130k from US Armed Forces.

    None of this is to belittle the contribution from the USA..
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Not like we didn't already know Randy, but thanks for the confirmation. Somehow, in your heart you can't differentiate between England and Empire.
    Empire is part of our history for good and ill. Its not part of our present, but at the point of history we were talking about it was. To take Empire out of our history is false.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #1822
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    This statistic only shows that you were good at dying or being captured.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  23. #1823
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    If it's not part of your present, then why do you keep bringing it up all the time? England stood not alone against Hitler at any time, it was you and an entire empire to back you up. And it wasn't even just your empire that made it possible for you to keep Hitler out; because that honor goes mostly to the French, who may have surrendered, but not before your totally incompetent government had won enough time to pull out of the war.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  24. #1824
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    This statistic only shows that you were good at dying or being captured.
    And had more people serve.

    So yes we fought the entire war not half of it, had more people serve, more people die, more people captured and were the point that halted your advance in the west and the launching pad for the liberation of the west etc yet it is bonkers to think we may have had a crucial role?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #1825
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    If it's not part of your present, then why do you keep bringing it up all the time? England stood not alone against Hitler at any time, it was you and an entire empire to back you up. And it wasn't even just your empire that made it possible for you to keep Hitler out; because that honor goes mostly to the French, who may have surrendered, but not before your totally incompetent government had won enough time to pull out of the war.
    I didn't bring it up, Loki did.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #1826
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    And had more people serve.

    So yes we fought the entire war not half of it, had more people serve, more people die, more people captured and were the point that halted your advance in the west and the launching pad for the liberation of the west etc yet it is bonkers to think we may have had a crucial role?
    I note that you conveniently forgot Russia which likely had far higher numbers than the UK...
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  27. #1827
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I didn't bring it up, Loki did.
    He brought up a very valid point; the fact that you Brits have some crazy idea about 'it was us wot won it' about WW2. It wasn't you who won it, it were the peoples of your empire, the Americans and the Russians that won it. You on the other hand were merely taking cover on your island untill the Americans and Russians were ready. And let me repeat it; that was only possible because of the French buying you time to start with.

    So there we have it; your biggest achievement in WW2 was being behind a moat that Hitler hadn't the means to cross. You think you valiantly fought all on your English own against a huge German Reich and thus have it in you to conquer the world again.

    The people who should in your warped way of thinking be proud as hell of WW2 would be the Germans; after all, they fought through all of that bloody war against 3 empires and still it took 5 full years to stamp their ambitions out. No hiding on an island waiting for others to save their sorry asses.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  28. #1828
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    He mentioned Russia earlier in the discussion when he said Russia was nearly as important or perhaps even more important than the Brits.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  29. #1829
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I think it's fair to argue that the Brits were the most important given the part they played in setting the stage for the Nazis rise to power without the Brits' policies v a v the Weimar Republic, perhaps there wouldn't have been a WW2 in the first place. Who knows. Of all the Brexit related news that's come out in the past few weeks this is the least informative.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #1830
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    Naah, they were bit players in that too. The main reason for that fuck up was mostly about the Americans doing what they are best at; buggering off before a mission is actually acomplished.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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