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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #2071
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    And still; the reason why the ship isn't entirely going up in flames already is that Theresa is at the helm. Any of the Brexiteers would have made a much bigger mess of this. For the simple reason they actually believe their own lies. Even today Rees-Mogg dared repeat the lie that there need not be any Customs controls on the UK border. Effectively telling that the UK wasn't taking back control over its trade from the EU, but simply throwing control as it is to the wind. Your industries would have to compete with cheap imports from wherever people fancied importing from. That was what leavers voted for? Being put out of business and jobs by Chinese behemots ?
    You mean like Singapore? Or New Zealand? Absolutely I 100% would back that any believer in free trade rather than protectionism should.

    Walk away from these bad-faith negotiations, abolish all tariffs, slash business rates and become the Singapore of Europe. Britain has always thrived best when we open up to the world and turn our backs on your protectionist nonsense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #2072
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It was the leading voice in the referenudm.
    Doesn't count for shit. Even if it was the "leading" voice it then was a very weak "leading" voice as it's message was promptly ignored and the votum usurped.

    That's the hallmark of propaganda, not leadership. If you can ignore this "leadership" so very effectively then it wasn't really "leadership". It was just a convenient message trotted out to hypnotize the masses.

    Happens all the time with destructive proposals - the "So, we won. What now?" void it creates effectively lets anyone with the will to power fill said void with their own strategy.

    If your proposal (i.e. your vote) had been constructive from the start, this could not have happened. Instead you voted for destruction and let someone else fill the gap. It doesn't matter what the "leading voice" was. It didn't succeed and also wasn't included on the ballot.

    Which lead to this ongoing trainwreck you have now.
    When the stars threw down their spears
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  3. #2073
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You mean like Singapore? Or New Zealand? Absolutely I 100% would back that any believer in free trade rather than protectionism should.

    Walk away from these bad-faith negotiations, abolish all tariffs, slash business rates and become the Singapore of Europe. Britain has always thrived best when we open up to the world and turn our backs on your protectionist nonsense.
    Mogg clarified that he meant the UK could forgo checks on goods from the EU only, while maintaining checks on goods from other countries, without a trade agreement in place. This is a lie and it's a fucking stupid one at that. It is ridiculous that British media is giving this liar so much free positive exposure. It's like interviewing Baghdad Bob.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  4. #2074
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Probably because people like you have a hard on for picking the most extreme people like him and viewing British politics at that. No different to Lewk cherrypicking a few oddball women who've lied about rape and then acting like all rape victims are like that.

    Mogg is a meaningless backbencher who's never held office yet you've mentioned him many more times than actual leading politicians and ministers like Gove. Why is that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #2075
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    To be fair, the media can't shut up about him either.
    Truth serves them
    Embrace and defend her case
    Part flattery, part threats
    "For those who cling to this domination will partake in its fall"


  6. #2076
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Probably because people like you have a hard on for picking the most extreme people like him and viewing British politics at that. No different to Lewk cherrypicking a few oddball women who've lied about rape and then acting like all rape victims are like that.

    Mogg is a meaningless backbencher who's never held office yet you've mentioned him many more times than actual leading politicians and ministers like Gove. Why is that?
    Because he gets a great deal of coverage by mainstream British media sources as well as influential non-traditional alternative media. The lies he tells are not very different from those peddled by the likes of Hannan, Fox, Redwood and various outspoken MPs & conservative pro-Brexit commentators with huge followings. The comparison with Gove is interesting because the only advantage Gove has over Mogg is that the former has been less talkative of late and thus lied less.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #2077
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Because he gets a great deal of coverage by mainstream British media sources as well as influential non-traditional alternative media. The lies he tells are not very different from those peddled by the likes of Hannan, Fox, Redwood and various outspoken MPs & conservative pro-Brexit commentators with huge followings. The comparison with Gove is interesting because the only advantage Gove has over Mogg is that the former has been less talkative of late and thus lied less.
    Hannan and Gove are libertarian Tories like myself that I have a lot of time for and agree with.

    Mogg is a Papist social conservative fruitcake that views the 17th century as too modern.

    Take on Hannan and I'd have more respect for you because I frankly agree wholeheartedly with him on most things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #2078
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Hannan is full of shit. For the past few months he's been spreading disinformation about border and tariff issues, and various disingenuous arguments, especially on Twitter, and then deleting them or moving on without comment when he's disproved by people who are more knowledgeable. His bizarre habit of posting stolen photos and pretending he took them himself on his travels is just the tip of the crazy iceberg.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #2079
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    So full of shit you have nothing to quote and actually disagree with unlike people you're a fanboy of like Mogg? Sure ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #2080
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I'm sorry but I am not going to dig through the internet for Hannan's deleted tweets weeks after I saw them just because you don't have a clue about the halfwits you idolize. But sure, next time he does it, I'll try to remember to post about it here.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #2081
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Would make a change for you to quote someone serious rather than a Lewk-like clown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #2082
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Would make a change for you to quote someone serious rather than a Lewk-like clown.
    https://politwoops.eu/p/unknown/DanielJHannan?page=1

    I only had the patience to go back to page 10. I don't think that was the end of it. If you like a summary:

    https://www.newstatesman.com/2017/02...re-are-13-them

    And this prime example shows him for the tiny Goebbels he is:

    https://twitter.com/GeorgePeretzQC/s...20544531718144
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  13. #2083
    Is this the same Hannan who said "but to repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market"?

    And https://infacts.org/dan-hannans-problem-truth/

  14. #2084
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You mean like Singapore? Or New Zealand? Absolutely I 100% would back that any believer in free trade rather than protectionism should.

    Walk away from these bad-faith negotiations, abolish all tariffs, slash business rates and become the Singapore of Europe. Britain has always thrived best when we open up to the world and turn our backs on your protectionist nonsense.
    LOL, like when you were squeezing the life blood out of your colonies you mean? You will not become the Singapore of Europe for the simple reason we will not let you.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  15. #2085
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Is this the same Hannan who said "but to repeat, absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market"?

    And https://infacts.org/dan-hannans-problem-truth/
    Yep.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  16. #2086
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Neither will British voters. The party that proposes a unilateral waiver of all tariffs will be voted out. In addition to voters having a hard-on for mild protectionism, there's the problem that abolishing all tariffs across the board significantly reduces a country's leverage and maneuvering space in trade negotiations, forcing greater concessions on things like immigration etc, which would definitely not be popular in a post-Brexit Britain that has already demonstrated its desire to reduce immigration by an order of magnitude in two different elections. RB is out of touch
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #2087
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Would make a change for you to quote someone serious rather than a Lewk-like clown.
    Lewkian clowns are no longer the irrelevant fringe. They are the princes and gentry of the new western idiocracy.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #2088
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    That of course is also true; the British electorate isn't going to sit by as the Tories destroy the last parts of manufacturing in the UK. But I didn't feel I should talk on their behalf.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  19. #2089
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    LOL, like when you were squeezing the life blood out of your colonies you mean? You will not become the Singapore of Europe for the simple reason we will not let you.
    You can't stop us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #2090
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You can't stop us.
    You can and will stop yourselves.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  21. #2091
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Neither will British voters. The party that proposes a unilateral waiver of all tariffs will be voted out. In addition to voters having a hard-on for mild protectionism, there's the problem that abolishing all tariffs across the board significantly reduces a country's leverage and maneuvering space in trade negotiations, forcing greater concessions on things like immigration etc, which would definitely not be popular in a post-Brexit Britain that has already demonstrated its desire to reduce immigration by an order of magnitude in two different elections. RB is out of touch
    Yet in the real world nations that have unilaterally cut protectionism like Singapore and New Zealand have thrived. It also makes goods cheaper so that people can buy more from their income and they are thus richer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #2092
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    You can and will stop yourselves.
    With a government that's too afraid to try absolutely. Won't stop me campaigning for one that does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #2093
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You can't stop us.
    Just try.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  24. #2094
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Love it if we could. The beauty of unilateral actions is they only take one party to agree.

    You can no more stop us being the Singapore of Europe than Asian blocs like the USSR/China could stop Singapore being the Singapore of Asia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #2095
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Love it if we could. The beauty of unilateral actions is they only take one party to agree.

    You can no more stop us being the Singapore of Europe than Asian blocs like the USSR/China could stop Singapore being the Singapore of Asia.
    We actually don't need to. You'll rip yourselves apart long before.

    I mean, you cannot even handle Brexit. And then you tell us that you'll thrive on the next lunacy. Heh. As if.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  26. #2096
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yet in the real world nations that have unilaterally cut protectionism like Singapore and New Zealand have thrived.
    NZ hasn't abolished all tariffs. You can easily confirm this. Singapore's economy and society are different from the UK's and specifically from Little England's.

    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    With a government that's too afraid to try absolutely. Won't stop me campaigning for one that does.
    It's a pipe dream. The British public would sooner agree to liberalize immigration rules than to unilaterally abolish all tariffs. It has nothing to do with timidity. A govt would not get a majority for such a policy in parliament and the party that goes to election on such a platform will lose said election.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  27. #2097
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    Well, to be Singapoore they'd not only have to scrap most tariffs, but they'd also have to liberalize immigration to the point where they create almost free movement for the entire world. No doubt Randy will now declare that's what he voted for, denying that a lot of his 'out' majority mostly want the 'Pakis and Polaks' out.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  28. #2098
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    NZ hasn't abolished all tariffs. You can easily confirm this. Singapore's economy and society are different from the UK's and specifically from Little England's.
    No but NZ has abolished most of them and has a far more liberal policy than we do.

    Singapore's economy and society are more successful than ours I agree. One of the worlds safest, more successful, wealthiest, highest educated nations with 90% of the population owning their own home - gee how awful!
    It's a pipe dream. The British public would sooner agree to liberalize immigration rules than to unilaterally abolish all tariffs. It has nothing to do with timidity. A govt would not get a majority for such a policy in parliament and the party that goes to election on such a platform will lose said election.
    So we can't abolish tariffs with nations like America or poor nations in Asia yet you reckon not only should we abolish all tariffs with Germany and poor nations across Europe but that we should pay billions a year for the privilege of doing so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Well, to be Singapoore they'd not only have to scrap most tariffs, but they'd also have to liberalize immigration to the point where they create almost free movement for the entire world. No doubt Randy will now declare that's what he voted for, denying that a lot of his 'out' majority mostly want the 'Pakis and Polaks' out.
    I don't have to "now declare" it, I have said clearly and consistently all along my views on migration. Find one thing I've ever written that is inconsistent with their policies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #2099
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No but NZ has abolished most of them and has a far more liberal policy than we do.
    This is obviously not the same as unilaterally abolishing all tariffs. Because important tariffs remain, NZ can use them in trade negotiations by offering to make concessions on tariffs rather than on their regulatory practices.

    Singapore's economy and society are more successful than ours I agree. One of the worlds safest, more successful, wealthiest, highest educated nations with 90% of the population owning their own home - gee how awful!
    This is stupid and you make yourself look stupid by presenting this asinine argument. Singapore is different wrt size, geography, resources, demographics, structure of economy etc. What works for Singapore isn't likely to work for you, politically or economically. The argument you're making is akin to saying that what works politically and economically for a particularly affluent part of London will work as is for all of England or the UK. This is stupid.


    So we can't abolish tariffs with nations like America or poor nations in Asia yet you reckon not only should we abolish all tariffs with Germany and poor nations across Europe but that we should pay billions a year for the privilege of doing so.
    This has very little to do with what I wrote. You can in theory unilaterally waive all tariffs, but your voters wouldn't let you, and doing so would remove much of the leverage you'd need to have in your future trade negotiations.

    This has little to do with your present EU membership. The EU's greatest accomplishment wasnt simply a removal of tariffs but the harmonization of disparate markets and the elimination of non-tariff barriers. The money you pay helps sustain and develop that large integrated market, and you get far more back from that market--and the others you access through the EU's deals--than you pay in. You will not conclude a completely tariff-free and fully harmonizing trade agreement with the US, China, India, Brazil, Canada, South Korea, Japan or any of your other fantasy Tradr hookups. Every single one of those deals, when they are finally concluded years from now, will be less beneficial wrt trade than your current deals with and through the EU. The US and SK in particular are likely to wring many more concessions out of you than vice versa.

    Re. poor countries, most of the world's poorest countries have tariff free or nearly tariff free access to our market.

    I don't have to "now declare" it, I have said clearly and consistently all along my views on migration. Find one thing I've ever written that is inconsistent with their policies.
    It is ridiculous to claim that you voted for that when such drastic loosening of immigration restrictions were never on any ballot and your govt. ran on a platform promising to reduce immigration to the tens of thousands.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #2100
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    Oh but Randy isn't responsible for that, his vote magically only touches the things he likes.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

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