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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #2251
    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post

    I agree with you that a decision should have been made right at the start about what Brexit should have look like, but 'right at the start' should have meant before the referendum so people knew exactly what they were voting for.
    Absolutely this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  2. #2252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    How's something CETA like gonna fly with the idea of not having a boarder with Ireland (either one) and the UK, thus screwing up the Good Friday Agreement?

    I agree with you that a decision should have been made right at the start about what Brexit should have look like, but 'right at the start' should have meant before the referendum so people knew exactly what they were voting for. As it is, Brexit turned into something basically any given type of right winger could project their political fantasies onto: it's turning the UK into a Singapore style centre of free trade and deregulation and will magic trade deals into existance, it's turning the clock back on globalism and cutting migration to the bone, it's going to free up tones of money for the Tories to pretend to spend on the NHS but really just tax cuts for rich people, it's going to be exactly like being in the EU and nothing will really change except the annoying parts, etc etc etc. Hence the mess and confusion, plus fuckers like Reece Mogg or Farage under the impression that because they won the referendum they have a mandate to impose their own personal vision of Brexit on the country.

    There should definately be another referendum on the deal, but there's almost no time for that because Article 50's already been triggered.
    It amazes me how May is being blamed for something she didn't actually have in her hands at all; it was the EU that drew a big fat red line by refusing negotiation before notification. The navel staring in the UK about a second referendum is also amazing; what makes you lot think you have the time for that?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  3. #2253
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Told you so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #2254
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Boris Johnson violates rule 12 when writing his resignation letter:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/factch...gnation-letter

    Oh RB, you really know how to pick 'em.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  5. #2255
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It amazes me how May is being blamed for something she didn't actually have in her hands at all; it was the EU that drew a big fat red line by refusing negotiation before notification.
    But there's no actual rush to do the negotiations until you trigger Article 50. They could have spent some time trying to agree on what Brexit was supposed to be first, then triggered it but it was the hardliners who were pressuring her to do it now now now, and she had a weak hand even before the election.
    Truth serves them
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  6. #2256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    But there's no actual rush to do the negotiations until you trigger Article 50. They could have spent some time trying to agree on what Brexit was supposed to be first, then triggered it but it was the hardliners who were pressuring her to do it now now now, and she had a weak hand even before the election.
    And how do you think the UK would have moved from the Lancaster House Brexit to the softish Brexit of today without the constant shooting down of notions put forward in the actual negotiations?

    It's more likely than not that even if the time had been taken to get to some sort of internal agreement that you would have gone in with the Lancaster House Brexit anyway, with a humiliation of the British government so massive that it would have forced any PM to resign anyway.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  7. #2257
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Looks like UCL is trying to outtrump Trump.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...discriminatory
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #2258
    Murdoch and Farage prime Trump to pile up the pressure on May. No UK-US trade deal with current plan.

    A country held hostage. Putin is laughing his sturdy tits off.

  9. #2259
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    May is truly seeking the worst of all worlds. Out of the EU so lose the benefits but not out of the entanglements that get us the benefits of leaving. What is the freaking point?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #2260
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The point is to maintain as many of the benefits of a close relationship as possible. If you must shoot yourself, shoot yourself in the foot rather than in the gut.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #2261
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    If you want to remain with as many of the benefits of a close relationship as possible then the answer is to remain a member.

    A better analogy is driving down the road. You can drive on the left going one direction, or drive on the right going another direction - but if you drive down the middle straddling both directions then you're going to crash into the oncoming traffic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #2262
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    That is not an accurate analogy for Brexit. You're absolutely right, the best possible decision would be to remain. But, failing that, it's better to be as closely integrated as it's possible for a non-member to be. You're having difficulties grasping this because you've fallen for the Brexiter myth that no deal is better than a "bad deal". Your representatives are beginning to realize that, while no deal might indeed be less humiliating and embarrassing than a bad deal, it is also much worse for the UK and for its citizens--if for no other reason than that you're simply not ready for such a scenario.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #2263
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Oh, by the way, I just got an email from Barcley's. They're moving at least part of their operations into the EU.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  14. #2264
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    The newest howler is that now that they have a plan for Brexit (one we won't accept by the way) they are afraid to talk about it with the EU. Because the crazies back home want to put forward a worse proposal.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  15. #2265
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Well past time to start preparing for no deal then.

    I'd love to see Varadkar's face if we just said we were walking away without a deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #2266
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    I can assure you you won't have any time for gloating. Given that you live in the country that will be hit hardest by a no-deal scenario and is least prepared for it.

    Because, and I know you can't get this into your head, no deal means no deal on anything.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  17. #2267
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  18. #2268
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    Well, it was their prime minister using the term Brexit dividend for higher taxation/extra borrowing. Tax and spend Tories

    I wonder how many weeks Randy's business will survive having problems with supplies and peaks in prices for food. And I also wonder how happy he still is about voting for putting it at risk.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  19. #2269
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    The Taoiseach is getting more delusional and crazy by the day. Clearly rattled and desperate, not acting as a leader at all. This just makes me laugh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #2270
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The Taoiseach is getting more delusional and crazy by the day. Clearly rattled and desperate, not acting as a leader at all. This just makes me laugh.

    Ireland is in the EU. "Our skies" = "The EU's skies". I understand this sort of asinine gloating might be the shiznit at the MAGA-like goat rodeo that is Brexit Britain, but, when you look closely at reality, you realize which side it is that is truly delusional (and has been since before the referendum). Nice try, but this is just sad.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  21. #2271
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Rand really doesn't grasp that commercial airlines kind of need the cooperation of the countries they're flying over.

    Rand, what do you think these guys here are doing?



    Hint: Without them, no single sane commercial pilot will take off, fly over anything or land anywhere.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  22. #2272
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    So Randblade is now advocating a Brexit from all types of international agreements. Not just sovereign but a rogue state. Good luck with your global Britain then; all these countries will be lining up to strike deals with a country that has no intention of sticking to them.

    But, please tell me, given your government is thinking about stockpiling food and medication in case of a no-deal situation, how long do you think your own business will survive that? Are you happy having voted yourself into bankrupcy ?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  23. #2273
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Ireland is in the EU. "Our skies" = "The EU's skies". I understand this sort of asinine gloating might be the shiznit at the MAGA-like goat rodeo that is Brexit Britain, but, when you look closely at reality, you realize which side it is that is truly delusional (and has been since before the referendum). Nice try, but this is just sad.
    Except we don't fly over EU skies when we cross the Atlantic. If I fly to Calgary to visit my in-laws we don't ever fly over another EU nation.

    However Ireland is both patrolled by the RAF and surrounded by the UK. Not only do their flights East to the continent fly over the UK but to the west and across the Atlantic the UK is responsible for the air to the west of Ireland too. In the event of the UK being grounded again Ireland would be completely grounded in all directions. The idea that's going to happen is bullshit of the first order.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #2274
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    Hahaha.. Brittania rules the waves
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  25. #2275
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    So Randblade is now advocating a Brexit from all types of international agreements. Not just sovereign but a rogue state. Good luck with your global Britain then; all these countries will be lining up to strike deals with a country that has no intention of sticking to them.
    No I'm not, I'm saying the Taoiseach is full of shit. Do you really believe this bollocks?
    But, please tell me, given your government is thinking about stockpiling food and medication in case of a no-deal situation, how long do you think your own business will survive that? Are you happy having voted yourself into bankrupcy ?
    We'll adapt. We're not tied to any supplier so all we need to do is get stock from anywhere and I can adjust the menu at will. We just got through the World Cup where one of my major suppliers ran out of beer due to the Europe-wide CO2 shortage. We swapped the lines over to another supply. Some customers were surprised their favourite brand was no longer available but because the CO2 issue has been in the news they understood why we had changed it over. I believe in the power of flexibility.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Rand really doesn't grasp that commercial airlines kind of need the cooperation of the countries they're flying over.

    Rand, what do you think these guys here are doing?

    Hint: Without them, no single sane commercial pilot will take off, fly over anything or land anywhere.
    Indeed and that cooperation will be forthcoming because it would be insane for it not to. Are you seriously claiming that the EU would violate its agreements with all other nations everyone in the globe by grounding their flights? If a Qatar Airways flight is going to fly from Qatar to the UK the EU is going to say to Qatar "no"? If an American Airlines flight is going to fly from America to the UK is the EU going to say to America "no"? Really? You honestly believe that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #2276
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Hahaha.. Brittania rules the waves
    Indeed because we're one of only two European nations with the military and capabilities to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  27. #2277
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Indeed and that cooperation will be forthcoming because it would be insane for it not to. Are you seriously claiming that the EU would violate its agreements with all other nations everyone in the globe by grounding their flights? If a Qatar Airways flight is going to fly from Qatar to the UK the EU is going to say to Qatar "no"? If an American Airlines flight is going to fly from America to the UK is the EU going to say to America "no"? Really? You honestly believe that?
    You really don't understand the underlying issue, do you? You have no fucking clue how this works. Qatar will not be a problem because they are from a 3rd nation anyway. It's your bloody flights which will have a problem. He said: "International flights FROM the UK", you nitwit! Can't you bloody read?

    Also, you clearly cannot read a map.



    EVERYTHING on that map inside the purple lines except for the two zones directly over the UK and the one over Iceland will stay under the EU's flight jurisdiction, plus the not unimportant big area to the left of Ireland. Technically you could use the Iceland route. Practically, this will add just a bit of time to the flight - it's only 1800 km from London to Reykjavik, after all.

    Let me spell this out for you: This is like letting someone drive around a busy highway without a valid driver's license or insurance. Let's imagine, one of your pilots for one reason or another forces another airliner to deviate from its path.

    Without valid agreements and contracts, there's no proper recourse for that. It would be bloody anarchy. And anarchy is NOT what you want to have when flying in a thin metal shell at 800+ km/h 10 km above ground with 200 to 500 passengers aboard.
    Last edited by Khendraja'aro; 07-19-2018 at 12:43 AM.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  28. #2278
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Indeed because we're one of only two European nations with the military and capabilities to do so.
    Last time I looked, France still has nukes. Don't push your luck.

    Also, your precious aircraft carrier is bloody useless against a proper submarine. Why don't you ask the US about their experiences with a single Swedish submarine?

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...gan-war-games/
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  29. #2279
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Riiiight so international flights would be able to fly from Qatar to the UK they just won't be able to fly from the UK? So those planes would just be grounded in the UK never to return home. Or would flights be travelling from the UK to Qatar too?

    As for that map have a look to the west of Ireland. Shanwick is managed by the UK.

    The flight to Rekjavik is quite pleasant, I've flown it many times.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #2280
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Last time I looked, France still has nukes. Don't push your luck.

    Also, your precious aircraft carrier is bloody useless against a proper submarine. Why don't you ask the US about their experiences with a single Swedish submarine?

    https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...gan-war-games/
    So your proposal now is nuclear war and mutual Armageddon? And we are meant to take you seriously?

    Yes France is the other military power in Europe that I mentioned.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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