Aren't those supposed to be funny?
"Rand tried to tell a joke." - that is funny!
Aren't those supposed to be funny?
"Rand tried to tell a joke." - that is funny!
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
You say it was a joke but it's pretty clear you genuinely do not understand the challenges involved. The comparison with other disasters is wholly misleading. In the event if eg. an unimaginable natural disaster or an unavoidable war with 6 months' warning, you would likely be able to rely on the charity and goodwill of your neighbors and allies. In this case, however, you're talking about an entirely avoidable self-inflicted disaster resulting from an eventual breakdown in negotiations with your closest neighbors and former allies. Not in any way comparable. Step one in preparing for disaster, for a country, is to not alienate your friends.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
If you're our friends you'll accept our decision to leave the group.
If you're our friends you'll help facilitate it even if you think its a mistake.
Negotiations have broken down within Europe for us for a quarter of a century, not a few months. That's why we've chosen to leave even if it may be difficult. Even if it hurts us. Cameron attempted to have negotiations to fix things and got rebuffed. We're leaving because not in spite of negotiations failing.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
You are not our friends.
Congratulations America
There we have it Aimless.
Jesus Christ, the retconning is strong with this one.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
*shrug* you were, and at one point even decent friends. However, Hazir's view is increasingly accurate today, whereas my point was about the past, before you decided to burn your bridges.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Pretty much every single claim in this post is untrue or misleading. Friendships can end, and in this case that outcome is likely. Friendships can also go through very rough patches, which is the nicest way to explain the present situation. Both are of course also true of loving marriages. Friends or partners that lie are often treated worse as a result. Friends or partners that embrace repugnant worldviews are often shunned. Friends or partners that keep fucking up and doing annoying shit might find themselves exhausting all their social capital. The EU isn't making things difficult for you; it's looking after its own interests now that the friendship/marriage is ending, while you keep undermining your own.
To claim that the UK has not had a functioning relationship with the EU for a quarter century is incorrect given the important role Brits played in shaping important decisions at crucial stages and given the important of having UK parties as political allies. It would be more accurate to say that the UK has indulged itself in its unseemly national pastime of wallowing in its victim complex for at least a quarter century.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Really?
Is this untrue or misleading? If you're our friends you'll accept our decision to leave the group.
Is this untrue or misleading? If you're our friends you'll help facilitate it even if you think its a mistake.
Yes to both, because neither of those two are necessarily true--the latter especially--and so to present them as such is misleading. It is also misleading because it assumes the EU countries are the UK's friends NOW; it's possible that they were friends BEFORE the referendum but aren't any longer. Indeed, my comment was in reference to the relationship prior to the mendacious, xenophobic eurosceptic surge that ultimately brought about the referendum. Not alienating those friends might have entailed, among other things, not lying about them, not causing them economical, social & political problems, not essentially ending the friendship etc.
If you have a dear friend who's engaging in self-destructive behaviour, eg. involving substance abuse, that you strongly believe harms not only them but everyone around them--including yourself--you have no obligation to "accept" it, and you certainly have no obligation to facilitate it. Especially if the behavior is harmful not only to your friend but also to you and your interests. Acceptance and facilitation are choices; they aren't mandated by friendship. Sometimes a friendship does not survive under the strain of one party's destructive/self-destructive behaviour, and when that happens, forgiveness and facilitation, too, are choices--there is no obligation to cancel debts after a friendship comes to an acrimonious end.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So not being in the EU, like other developed European nations like Iceland, Norway or Switzerland as well as other developed nations globally outside Europe . . . is comparable to substance abuse?
I can't have a rational conversation with you. You're like a cultist who views me not drinking the Kool-Aid as irrational.
I don't know why you have suddenly become so incredibly bad at understanding things. It's as if you have taken a vow to read everything shallowly from the perspective of the world's least informed man.
The comparison was between substance abuse and a self-destructive act, which in the context of this discussion--and from my perspective--is Brexit, specifically the version of Brexit you're heading towards. Brexit is the leaving--it is the transition from being in the EU to not being in the EU. The version of Brexit you're heading toward involves transitioning from being in the EU to not being in the EU, after burning your bridges, with no deal, no agreements, and scant preparation by your govt, your businesses and your citizens.
It is not unreasonable for someone to take the view that this is self-destructive--indeed, half of your electorate and a number of your politicians take precisely that view, and the number is growing by the week. There are many in the EU who, similarly, view this decision--and your subsequent behavior in the course of the negotiations--as self-destructive. Even those who are or have been your friends would, if they shared that perspective, not be obligated to accept the decision with equanimity, let alone facilitate it by making things easy for you--especially not when it imposes costs on their public finances as well as on their businesses, while greatly inconveniencing many of their citizens. Friendship does not come with an obligation to help your friends fuck things up for themselves and for you. In many friendships, it is understood that friendship comes with the opposite obligation--to oppose things that you strongly feel is harmful to your friend, yourself and the friendship.
I did not make a comparison between substance abuse and never being in the EU in the first place but having functional comprehensive trade ties eg. through EEA in the case of Norway and Iceland, or through a large number of bilateral agreements as is the case with Switzerland. Norway isn't presently in the process of chaotically leaving the EU or the EEA. Neither is Iceland. The comparison between the UK's exit from the EU (w/ subsequent alienation due to No Deal) and the EU's stable and very close relationships with Norway and Iceland is simply not informative. You keep having these brain-farts and then trying to pin them on me, but, although we all smelt them, it's pretty obvious you dealt them. I suggest a change of diet.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
If only Britain still had some friends to back it up...
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-45300739
Hope is the denial of reality
Looks like the fudge factory has started to ramp up production as forecast by myself all along. There will be a deal shortly and life will go on.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...al-green-light
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
I wonder how happy our breximaniacs are with Trump threathening to take an axe to their favorite totem (WTO).
Congratulations America
Not very Trump is an arse.
Yeees, there will be a deal shortly. snort. I crack myself up sometimes, I really do!
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...rder-irish-sea
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Who said 'shortly'. Sometime in November or December would be my bet. January at the latest.
Wat.
And, dude, beginning of November is the real cutoff date.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
LOL oops. *blush*
Agreed beginning over November is cut off. That's why I expect no later than January. 14 December if I had to pick a date.
The later there is agreement the bigger the chance is that timely ratification isn't possible.
Congratulations America
I can't get over how eager Brexiters are to lie repeatedly about tariffs. Blatant lies that have been repeatedly refuted but that are difficult for laymen to identify and refute. Some might call it cynicism but I'm pretty sure it's just a disgrace.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Of course. But realistically whether its October, November or December makes little real difference. Once we get into January it does. That's why my expectation is for the EU summit that is on December 14.
The timescale all along has been suggested as 3 months for ratification and then worked backwards that 3 months before 29 March is October. That was always a nonsense. These initial deadlines are put into place to be failed to be met but concentrate minds. Dec 14 is pushing it, an agreement then is close enough to Christmas that people will just be relieved its over, go away for Christmas then come back in new year to ratify.
Parliaments can get awfully prickly when told they have a deadline.
Congratulations America
Of course they can, but its the only thing that concentrates minds too. Deals like this are never wrapped up with time to spare.
You do know that there real time-constraints on this? Constraints which cannot be bypassed unless you want them to be challenged (and thus blocked) in court?
Beginning of November. Not December, not January.
Beginning of November, Rand.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
A bunch of members have no specific interest in a deal with the UK. They are not going feel pressured by a no deal scenario.
Congratulations America
We will see. I expect December 14th
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