Brexit Begins

[Hazir]

Seems like the EC is going to publish a new proposal for rules about euro-clearing; the main gist will be that it can't stay in London.

[RandBlade]

There's a surprise. Say hello to Euroeuros that will be cleared in London ...

[Hazir]

There's a surprise. Say hello to Euroeuros that will be cleared in London ...

Ask Iranians how well that works against the regulator of a currency.

[RandBlade]

Maybe you might want to research how clearing actually works. The UK clears transactions in sterling, euros, yen, dollars and plenty of other currencies not because we're in the same nation or political union as the yen/dollar etc - and the "euro-" suffix in finance terms was invented due to the UK's successful ingenuity and record and has nothing to do with the EU or anything else.

https://www.ft.com/content/e7b6a752-...6-a4a71e8140b0

[Hazir]

The dollar clearing finds place under American jurisdiction, no matter where on earth it takes place.

[RandBlade]

Indeed and the Euro trading takes place under relevant jurisdictions all over the globe. If you want to start protectionism and make it have to take place physically in the Eurozone then as the pink 'un shows you'd have to be declaring a protectionist war on America and Japan etc too.

[Hazir]

Indeed and the Euro trading takes place under relevant jurisdictions all over the globe. If you want to start protectionism and make it have to take place physically in the Eurozone then as the pink 'un shows you'd have to be declaring a protectionist war on America and Japan etc too.

Wake up and smell the coffee. You will not have the bulk any longer, and the Americans and others won't get more than they already have.

Brexit is Brexit, and we're going to make a success of it.

[RandBlade]

I'll have a latte with an extra shot of espresso and some caramel syrup if you're offering coffee.

We have the bulk not because of our geographical location but because we are very good at what we do. Hence why we have the bulk of euro clearing as well as a considerable sum of Dollar, Yen, Ruble and other clearings. In order to take that off us, you would also need to declare economic war on America, Japan and other nations that already clear Euros while not being in the EU. That you're even considering this and you wonder why I think the EU is a protectionist body we're better off out from.

Brexit is Brexit, and we're going to make a success of it.

[Hazir]

You are talking out of your backside as usual.

[Aimless]

I'll have a latte with an extra shot of espresso and some caramel syrup if you're offering coffee.

We have the bulk not because of our geographical location but because we are very good at what we do. Hence why we have the bulk of euro clearing as well as a considerable sum of Dollar, Yen, Ruble and other clearings. In order to take that off us, you would also need to declare economic war on America, Japan and other nations that already clear Euros while not being in the EU. That you're even considering this and you wonder why I think the EU is a protectionist body we're better off out from.

Brexit is Brexit, and we're going to make a success of it.

I can't help but notice that this fails to take into account your membership in the EU.

[Hazir]

I can't help but notice that this fails to take into account your membership in the EU.

It does, as it does fails to take into account that it's based on EU oversight. Or that the US clearing of euros is based in equivalency, but limited to relatively minor parties.

And now May can only talk to Barnier about Brexit

[Hazir]

Oh we're in full WW2 mode now. Where is the popcorn when you need it.

[RandBlade]

I can't help but notice that this fails to take into account your membership in the EU.

We have the bulk not because of our geographical location but because we are very good at what we do. Hence why we have the bulk of euro clearing as well as a considerable sum of Dollar, Yen, Ruble and other clearings. In order to take that off us, you would also need to declare economic war on America, Japan and other nations that already clear Euros while not being in the EU

[Hazir]

We have the bulk not because of our geographical location but because we are very good at what we do. Hence why we have the bulk of euro clearing as well as a considerable sum of Dollar, Yen, Ruble and other clearings. In order to take that off us, you would also need to declare economic war on America, Japan and other nations that already clear Euros while not being in the EU

No we don't, we only need to block the people we don't trust. Yes, that would be you.

[Aimless]

We have the bulk not because of our geographical location but because we are very good at what we do. Hence why we have the bulk of euro clearing as well as a considerable sum of Dollar, Yen, Ruble and other clearings. In order to take that off us, you would also need to declare economic war on America, Japan and other nations that already clear Euros while not being in the EU

I'm saying that much of your non-Euro business may have come your way in large part due to your status in the EU.

[RandBlade]

What evidence do you have that we are clearing Yen because we are in the EU?

What reason Hazir do you have to not trust LCH Clearnet?

[Hazir]

We can't trust British government, as we have learned the hard way. So why should we trust their institutions any better?

[RandBlade]

You can trust the British government, we have followed every step of the guidelines in Europe's Constitution* to leave the organisation properly. We're continuing to make all payments due until the day we leave too.

* sorry, Lisbon Treaty, can't call it a constitution as your voters rejected that.

[Hazir]

Well, we don't trust you, and we won't trust you with our money. You're clearly operating in bad faith.

[RandBlade]

Feeling's mutual.

You as a customer are free not to choose to use British companies. Your governments are not free to target British companies and let American companies stand though. You either need to become fully protectionist and declare a trade war with the whole rest of the world, or keep British companies at worst as the same basis as the rest of the world. Oh well, what a shame. That worst case also means you won't see a single cent in payment to us post-Brexit either. If you want any post-Brexit payments then that means a trade deal and that means we'll be treated at least better than the Americans and other nations without a deal.

[Hazir]

Haha, wait and see

Brexit is Brexit and we're going to make a success of it

[Aimless]

What evidence do you have that we are clearing Yen because we are in the EU?

That is not what I'm saying. Please re-read my post.

[RandBlade]

Re-read it twice, struggling to see what else you could have meant. In a discussion about clearing you said that our non-euro business [eg clearing Yen] 'may have come our way in large part due to our status' [ie membership] of the EU.

What else could you have meant other than we are clearing Yen due to our membership of the EU and what evidence do you have for that? Or if it isn't what you meant, what did you mean and what evidence do you have for that?

[Hazir]

That is not what I'm saying. Please re-read my post.

Just give up, this unique thick skull in combination with an utter lack of basic information makes our resident breximania someone you'll never be able to lead to the truth. He's also good adtthoroughly forgetting positions he was defending with all his passion only days ago

[Aimless]

Re-read it twice, struggling to see what else you could have meant. In a discussion about clearing you said that our non-euro business [eg clearing Yen] 'may have come our way in large part due to our status' [ie membership] of the EU.

What else could you have meant other than we are clearing Yen due to our membership of the EU and what evidence do you have for that? Or if it isn't what you meant, what did you mean and what evidence do you have for that?

What else could I have meant? How about "You're clearing more Yen and Dollars than you would have otherwise"? Eg. that, had you not been in the EU, this portion of your financial sector would not have been as large as it is today, just as your financial sector may not have been as large without the EU. That doesn't automatically mean that your clearinghouses will collapse completely once you leave the EU, but it isn't unreasonable to think that, even though you would retain much of your resources in that sector, it might take a major hit due to the same network effects that almost certainly influenced its growth to begin with.

[RandBlade]

And your evidence for that is ... ???

Although London Clearing House merged with Clearnet post-EU, it was founded in the nineteenth century and has been a global leader in its industry since the nineteenth century. Its growth "to begin with" has nothing to do with the EU as the EU didn't exist in the nineteenth century. It clears approximately 50% of all interest rate swaps globally. It is one of the largest clearing houses for American IRS trades. The EU is neither here nor there.

[LittleFuzzy]

No doubt I'll be slapped down as that ignorant and partisan American, but may I ask, how did things stand in this regard before EMU?

[Aimless]

And your evidence for that is ... ???

Although London Clearing House merged with Clearnet post-EU, it was founded in the nineteenth century and has been a global leader in its industry since the nineteenth century. Its growth "to begin with" has nothing to do with the EU as the EU didn't exist in the nineteenth century. It clears approximately 50% of all interest rate swaps globally. It is one of the largest clearing houses for American IRS trades. The EU is neither here nor there.

A brief account of the origins of LCH.Clearnet doesn't say very much about the development of the UK's financial sector since it joined the EU. The 50% figure is current and must take into account the role of the EU on the growth of the UK's financial sector. Or do you believe that none of that sector's growth has been due to the UK's membership in the EU and the Single Market? The value of USD/EUR matches or exceeds USD/JPY.

There is no doubt that London had many advantages right from the outset but there is also no doubt that membership in the EU has had an impact on London over the past couple of decades. The value of your trade in financial services with the EU is comparable to or greater than the same trade with the US. The EU itself represents one of the largest trading blocs in the world. Your EU membership has allowed businesses from outside the EU to take advantage of both London's long-established resources as well as its access to the EU. You might argue that the impact of the EU has been negative, or positive, but I don't think you can persuasively argue that it has been completely neutral or negligible.

[Aimless]

No doubt I'll be slapped down as that ignorant and partisan American, but may I ask, how did things stand in this regard before EMU?

It is a sector that has seen extreme growth since the establishment of the EMU and esp. since the expansion of the Eurozone.

For example:



https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...eckoning-looms

Obviously some players lost out but for LCH it's been great and it helps sustain a thriving ecosystem of related products and services in London.

[Hazir]

A brief account of the origins of LCH.Clearnet doesn't say very much about the development of the UK's financial sector since it joined the EU. The 50% figure is current and must take into account the role of the EU on the growth of the UK's financial sector. Or do you believe that none of that sector's growth has been due to the UK's membership in the EU and the Single Market? The value of USD/EUR matches or exceeds USD/JPY.

There is no doubt that London had many advantages right from the outset but there is also no doubt that membership in the EU has had an impact on London over the past couple of decades. The value of your trade in financial services with the EU is comparable to or greater than the same trade with the US. The EU itself represents one of the largest trading blocs in the world. Your EU membership has allowed businesses from outside the EU to take advantage of both London's long-established resources as well as its access to the EU. You might argue that the impact of the EU has been negative, or positive, but I don't think you can persuasively argue that it has been completely neutral or negligible.

And yet he will.