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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #3091
    Orange is nice.

    As is the thought of PM Gove.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #3092
    Ah yes, the man who said I've "had enough of experts".

    Just the kind of man I want leading the country through a rather challenging period of time.

  3. #3093
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    No way that is going to happen: without a clear perspective of a deal that is better for the EU, the article 50 period will not be extended.
    Congratulations America

  4. #3094
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    No way that is going to happen: without a clear perspective of a deal that is better for the EU, the article 50 period will not be extended.
    A no deal Brexit will harm member states too, no reason for the EU not to agree to an extension even if only to allow everyone time to mitigate the effects,
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  5. #3095
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Ah yes, the man who said I've "had enough of experts".

    Just the kind of man I want leading the country through a rather challenging period of time.
    Are you aware you're snipping out a key part of the quote?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #3096
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    A no deal Brexit will harm member states too, no reason for the EU not to agree to an extension even if only to allow everyone time to mitigate the effects,
    That's common sense. Sadly lacking from many muppets who think this is some sort of zero sum game to play
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #3097
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    A no deal Brexit will harm member states too, no reason for the EU not to agree to an extension even if only to allow everyone time to mitigate the effects,
    Which doesn't mean we're going to give you an extension just to that you can dick around some more. Which means that the present deal is our collection of red lines.
    Congratulations America

  8. #3098
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    A no deal Brexit will harm member states too, no reason for the EU not to agree to an extension even if only to allow everyone time to mitigate the effects,
    Unlike the UK, EU countries have been preparing for the possibility of No Deal for a long time. Absent a realistic prospect of a deal, a substantial extension of the A50 period would not mitigate the EU's Brexit-related problems—rather the opposite. The mistake here is in assuming that both parties to this divorce would benefit from one party being allowed to mess about for a few more months. In reality, neither party would benefit. An extension should only be granted if there's a strong and reasonable expectation that the extension will lead to a desirous outcome. The UK's lack of credibility in the negotiations up to this point doesn't bode well for the EU's ability to trust in a positive outcome of an extension.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  9. #3099
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Unlike the UK, EU countries have been preparing for the possibility of No Deal for a long time.
    Sure they have. Those forward thinking continentals have been planning for this as far back as, uh, *checks notes* October.

    Germany and France are starting to step up their preparations for a no-deal Brexit even though both publicly insist an agreement with the UK over the terms of its departure from the EU can still be achieved.

    Angela Merkel revealed for the first time on Wednesday that Germany was drawing up contingency plans, saying the government had started making “suitable preparations” for the possibility of Britain leaving with no accord.
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...no-deal-brexit

    Thankfully, these far sighted steps have already ensured that the sudden disruption of just-in-time supply chains all across the UK and Europe will have no effect whatsoever on EU countries, while simultaneously completely destroying the UK economy. Because that's how economies work these days.

    *checkes notes again*

    Oh, wait, no, they're concerned about, to name just one example, drugs:

    The EU’s drugs regulator, the European Medicines Agency (EMA), on Wednesday said that it and national regulators had set up a task force to minimise supply disruptions arising for any reason over the next two years.

    “The withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the EU is also likely to affect the availability of medicines in the EU,” it said.


    The German government has asked drugmakers to examine their supply chains for any vulnerability that could cause shortages of essential drugs should Britain leave the EU without a Brexit deal.


    The highly regulated drugs sector is one of the most vulnerable to Britain's decision to leave the EU because of uncertainty as to how medicine oversight will function in the event of an abrupt exit next March.


    More than 2,600 drugs have some stage of manufacture in Britain and 45 million patient packs are supplied from the UK to other European countries each month, while another 37 million flow in the opposite direction, industry figures show.


    Germany's Federal Institute for Drugs and Medical Devices (BfArM) has ordered the country's main drug industry associations to gather information on the impact of a no-deal Brexit, a spokeswoman for the health ministry said on Wednesday.


    German drugmakers including Bayer, Merck KGaA and Boehringer Ingelheim as well as foreign suppliers such as Teva and Roche, have been asked to plan for the "worst-case-scenario of a hard Brexit without transition period"..
    https://www.france24.com/en/20180829...dications-deal
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  10. #3100
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Are you aware you're snipping out a key part of the quote?
    Pray tell.

    It's from the same interview where makes the argument that those who want to remain do so because they're benefited from being in the EU. We'll durr.

  11. #3101
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Pray tell.

    It's from the same interview where makes the argument that those who want to remain do so because they're benefited from being in the EU. We'll durr.
    Full quote:

    I think that the people of this country have had enough of experts from organisations with acronyms saying that they know what is best and getting it consistently wrong, because these people are the same ones who got consistently wrong.
    6 June 2016, in interview with Faisal Islam.
    Usually misquoted as "I think people in this country have had enough of experts" due to Islam interrupting Gove mid-sentence.

    https://en.m.wikiquote.org/wiki/Michael_Gove
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #3102
    And exactly what difference does that make?

  13. #3103
    It's a completely different meaning.

    Having 'had enough of experts' is mockingly misquoted to imply he was saying we'd had enough of people who get things right and know what they're talking about.

    Having 'had enough of' people who "consistently get things wrong" is completely different meaning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #3104
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Sure they have. Those forward thinking continentals have been planning for this as far back as, uh, *checks notes* October.



    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...no-deal-brexit

    Thankfully, these far sighted steps have already ensured that the sudden disruption of just-in-time supply chains all across the UK and Europe will have no effect whatsoever on EU countries, while simultaneously completely destroying the UK economy. Because that's how economies work these days.

    *checkes notes again*

    Oh, wait, no, they're concerned about, to name just one example, drugs:



    https://www.france24.com/en/20180829...dications-deal
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8452386.html

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4545_en.htm

    Please understand that when something is announced, it has usually been preceded by a couple of months of preparatory work. Your articles show that the EU is several months ahead in its preparations.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #3105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Sure they have. Those forward thinking continentals have been planning for this as far back as, uh, *checks notes* October.



    https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...no-deal-brexit

    Thankfully, these far sighted steps have already ensured that the sudden disruption of just-in-time supply chains all across the UK and Europe will have no effect whatsoever on EU countries, while simultaneously completely destroying the UK economy. Because that's how economies work these days.

    *checkes notes again*

    Oh, wait, no, they're concerned about, to name just one example, drugs:



    https://www.france24.com/en/20180829...dications-deal
    I doubt anybody is fully prepared for the madness of a no-deal Brexit, except maybe for the crazies in the UK who think it can be weathered just fine. It wouldn't even have made much sense to throw millions/billions on preparations that (unlike y2k investments) never may pay off. Especially since the EU and UK were negotiating a deal (which would have prevented the default of a no-deal). However, I do think that several continental governments have been more serious about planning for life after Brexit than the British government. And that should worry Brits, because the disruption is going to affect them worse than any of the continental countries.

    Businesses on both sides of the Channel seem seriously underprepared.
    Congratulations America

  16. #3106
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It's a completely different meaning.

    Having 'had enough of experts' is mockingly misquoted to imply he was saying we'd had enough of people who get things right and know what they're talking about.

    Having 'had enough of' people who "consistently get things wrong" is completely different meaning.
    Y'see, I think Gove is a very smart man and he knew exactly what he was doing. If he really did mean what you think he meant, he's astute enough to know that he'd need to quantify and clarify his remark; with some evidence. Go on, back up your bullshit with some evidence. He can't - instead he issues a broad and insidious attack on organisations with acronyms; trying to use that as an argument not to listen to anyone other than leavers.

  17. #3107
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a8452386.html

    http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-18-4545_en.htm

    Please understand that when something is announced, it has usually been preceded by a couple of months of preparatory work. Your articles show that the EU is several months ahead in its preparations.
    Wow! Whole months.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  18. #3108
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Wow! Whole months.
    Yes, whole months and more than a thousand customs officers. The EU countries' preparations are substantial--both those on the parts of of national govts and on the parts of businesses who have chosen to heed official warnings. I understand how this may be difficult to appreciate from a nation where several months of preparation really doesn't amount to anything.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  19. #3109
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Y'see, I think Gove is a very smart man and he knew exactly what he was doing. If he really did mean what you think he meant, he's astute enough to know that he'd need to quantify and clarify his remark; with some evidence. Go on, back up your bullshit with some evidence. He can't - instead he issues a broad and insidious attack on organisations with acronyms; trying to use that as an argument not to listen to anyone other than leavers.
    The only reason Gove looks like a good alternative to delusional Brexiters is because he's had the good sense to basically shut up for most of the past few months. It's clear from context what he really meant.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  20. #3110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The only reason Gove looks like a good alternative to delusional Brexiters is because he's had the good sense to basically shut up for most of the past few months. It's clear from context what he really meant.
    I think Iḿ going to use the word Brexit in the way Marina Hyde suggests in the The Guardian; to describe something that's fucked up far beyond saving.
    Congratulations America

  21. #3111
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Yes, whole months and more than a thousand customs officers. The EU countries' preparations are substantial--both those on the parts of of national govts and on the parts of businesses who have chosen to heed official warnings. I understand how this may be difficult to appreciate from a nation where several months of preparation really doesn't amount to anything.
    So when a medium sized tech business in Amsterdam fails because the supply chain it relies on to get the parts it needs has broken down because the regulatory framework isn't in place any more, they're going to be all "well, thank god we have these 1000 customs officers" are they?
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  22. #3112
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    So when a medium sized tech business in Amsterdam fails because the supply chain it relies on to get the parts it needs has broken down because the regulatory framework isn't in place any more, they're going to be all "well, thank god we have these 1000 customs officers" are they?
    Unlike the UK, the EU has been encouraging businesses to prepare for Brexit--specifically for the UK's transition to a third country status--for a long time. I'm sorry, but the only consolation here for the British here is that British businesses aren't nearly as dumb as the govt and have therefore been looking closely at various contingency plans. There is an important difference between the UK and the EU wrt Brexit preparations: the EU has been as transparent as possible with its member states, whereas the UK govt has lied to or dodged its parliament.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  23. #3113
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Unlike the UK, the EU has been encouraging businesses to prepare for Brexit--specifically for the UK's transition to a third country status--for a long time. I'm sorry, but the only consolation here for the British here is that British businesses aren't nearly as dumb as the govt and have therefore been looking closely at various contingency plans. There is an important difference between the UK and the EU wrt Brexit preparations: the EU has been as transparent as possible with its member states, whereas the UK govt has lied to or dodged its parliament.
    If Europe been configuring their entire economy to avoid any dependency on stuff coming from the UK they've kept it quiet.

    I actually agree that the EU is a somewhat better position here, because the governments don't have to pretend that Brexit was a good idea, but it's hardly going to be enough make it pain free on the other side of the channel, and the other side of the NI border. It would still be in everyone's interest to take a pause before a hard Brexit.

    Not that I expect the British governemnt to do that, whoever's in charge will have to either pretend Brexit was a good idea or pretend they didn't just fuck up massively by failing to get a deal.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
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  24. #3114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    If Europe been configuring their entire economy to avoid any dependency on stuff coming from the UK they've kept it quiet.

    I actually agree that the EU is a somewhat better position here, because the governments don't have to pretend that Brexit was a good idea, but it's hardly going to be enough make it pain free on the other side of the channel, and the other side of the NI border. It would still be in everyone's interest to take a pause before a hard Brexit.

    Not that I expect the British governemnt to do that, whoever's in charge will have to either pretend Brexit was a good idea or pretend they didn't just fuck up massively by failing to get a deal.
    Actually, a hard Brexit would be the kind of Brexit that the EU can deal with. It will still hurt, but as long as Brexit isn't chaotic, we can handle it. A no-deal Brexit is an animal of an entirely different kind; that would hurt bad and it would take extreme measures to limit the damage. I don't think the EU members are much better prepared than the UK, but still, you shouldn't underestimate the advantage of at least acknowledging that Brexit more than anything, is an exercise in damage control.

    The only upside I see to a chaotic Brexit is that it will utterly destroy an entire class of British politicians. Boris and his ilk will not be able to avoid to be held accountable when their compatriots understand how bad Brexit actually is going to be for most of them.
    Congratulations America

  25. #3115
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    The Torygraph already is declaring a May victory.
    Congratulations America

  26. #3116
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    Today the Bundestag has voted against renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement. Formally the vote isn't relevant, but technically it brings a blocking minority in case there is a re-negotiation within reach.
    Congratulations America

  27. #3117
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    After Brexit Brits fall under the ESTA regime, which means that prior to travel to the EU Brits will need to register and get approval for their travel. Approval is valid for 3 years. I guess that also means that Brits traveling to the Schengen area will be told to use the 'other countries' lines.
    Congratulations America

  28. #3118
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    Congratulations America

  29. #3119
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    I wonder if people in the UK are picking up on the fact that the EU27 before the meeting were willing to give more than what actually came out. The message to me seems clear: this is the only deal on offer given the red lines of the UK government.

  30. #3120
    I've seen a lot of unofficial polls recently about What The People Want. What's interesting is that every one I've seen hangs in favour of a 2nd referendum. What's scary is how many want a no deal.

    And what's terrifying is that I have absolutely no faith that those who want a no deal have any idea what it actually means, because the nation has been coerced into thinking that any risk or concern raised by "experts" is to be treated with contempt and "project fear". I've never been so ashamed to be British.

    All the other things we could be doing...

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