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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #4711
    The relevance is we were the ones paying the bills and now we've gone there's inevitably squabbles over how to replace our taxes you were relying upon. You took us for granted in the past, we will see now if you've still not learnt from history and make the same mistake again. If you do an Australian style Brexit will be inevitable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #4712
    The squabbles represent the standard squabbles over prioritization; the last budget represented less than 1% of GDP and the shortfall from the UK's departure isn't difficult to compensate for; the difficulties are the standard difficulties that are integral to EU politics. The UK cannot have a Canada style deal, and people who talk about an "Australia-style" deal aka. no deal are just silly.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #4713
    The UK can have a Canada style deal, its what Barnier suggested at the start of this process. If we can't have a Canada style one, we can definitely have an Australian style one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #4714
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The UK can have a Canada style deal, its what Barnier suggested at the start of this process. If we can't have a Canada style one, we can definitely have an Australian style one.
    What you've failed to consider is that, since those remarks were made, the UK has signed an agreement with the EU, one in which it has made commitments that in some respects go beyond the requirements of CETA. Meanwhile, there is no such thing as an "Australian style" deal with the EU.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  5. #4715
    There is an Australian style deal, it is how Australia deals with the EU. Its putting our alternatives into a real world context not bullshit fearmongering about WTO.

    We have not made commitments that in any respects go beyond the requirements of CETA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #4716
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    You may as well call it the 'Moon deal' in that case.

    In the withdrawal deal you ceded Northern Ireland, promised to secure rights of citizens for decades to come and accept jurisdiction of the ECJ over matter that may arise. That goes a lot further than CETA already.
    Congratulations America

  7. #4717
    How much trade does the Moon do with the EU? More or less than Australia?

    Those issues are settled yes and not relevant to the trade deal which is why they were decided in separate phases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #4718
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    How much trade does the Moon do with the EU? More or less than Australia?

    Those issues are settled yes and not relevant to the trade deal which is why they were decided in separate phases.
    I guess that's true if you don't care about a border across your United Kingdom.
    Congratulations America

  9. #4719
    You mean NI? No I don't care.

    So about trade. Canada style or Aussie style what's your preference?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #4720
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    First of tone it down little one.
    Congratulations America

  11. #4721
    Those are the options we're offering and we don't need your consent for one of them, so its Canada or Australia.

    I'm happy with whatever you choose, my preference will be Canada but its your choice. Aren't you happy having the choice, I thought that was what you wanted? Or are you just irritated as you thought you could force something else on us?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #4722
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    There is an Australian style deal, it is how Australia deals with the EU. Its putting our alternatives into a real world context not bullshit fearmongering about WTO.

    We have not made commitments that in any respects go beyond the requirements of CETA.
    The UK has made commitments wrt NI and wrt LPF regs that are more stringent than what is required of Canada, for obv. reasons. If the UK intends to renege on these commitments, it will have burned up all its goodwill in Brussels, precluding a Canada-style deal in the aftermath. If it honours its commitments, it will of course have a deal that is, from the EU's perspective, Canada+, but, from the UK's perspective, UK-. "Australia-style deal" is just the dumbest kind of Newspeak; it refers to the absence of a trade agreement. If you want to be a smartass instead of a dumbass, you'll call it "Australia-style trade", which, wrt the EU, is trading without a trade agreement. The absence of a deal is not a deal; it is a state of non-deal. The absence of life is not another state of life-iness; it's non-life.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  13. #4723
    The UK has not made any LPF commitments that are more stringent than what is required of Canada. If you think it has then please quote chapter and verse. There has been a vague reference to a level playing field but Canada has LPF too so we expect the same LPF as they have for the same deal they have.

    There are deals that will exist even without a comprehensive trade deal. WTO is itself a deal we will have, that the Australians also have.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #4724
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    Article 77 of the Political declaration is anything but vague. It directly links the level of cooperation to the level playing field.

    The amusing part of this all is that the requirements are so matter of fact that they will apply even without a trade deal.

    Finally Randy; stop the roaring mouse act. It's impressing nobody.
    Congratulations America

  15. #4725
    Article 77 is quite vague, deliberately so. Correct the level of cooperation is linked to the level playing field, so a Canadian style level playing field will be commensurate with a Canadian style deal.

    Secondly the Political Declaration is not legally binding, so without a trade deal nothing applies.

    Finally there's no act. I'm content either way whichever way we go - Canadian or Australian model I'm OK either way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #4726
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    You will agree to whatever you will be allowed by us. You are not an equal partner.
    Congratulations America

  17. #4727
    You missed the fact we don't need an agreement for Australian style trade.

    Oops. That's embarrassing, I feel sorry for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #4728
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    It's always somewhat disconcerting if someone in a position that's totally hopeless states he's sorry for you. Tell us please Randy, what is it you imbibe before you write your contributions?
    Congratulations America

  19. #4729
    I'm just being realistic. You are the one with delusions of grandeur.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #4730
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  21. #4731
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    50,000. That's a great result. Who'd have thought cutting red tape could create so many bureaucratic positions.
    Congratulations America

  22. #4732
    Not what Boris needs right now: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51687287

    Hopefully it'll mean Priti Patel will resign.

    Again.

  23. #4733
    Why would she?

    The Civil Service is there to impartially serve the elected government. If they can't do so they're right to bugger off and be replaced, that's not bullying. The elected government doesn't serve at the whim of some jumped up Sir Humphrey.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #4734
    She should if the government are found guilty of constructive dismissal.

  25. #4735
    No.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #4736
    A cabinet minister shouldn't resign (or be sacked) if they are found guilty of bullying and/or constructive dismissal?

    Why?

  27. #4737
    They should do their job as they're elected to do as they see fit. If there's an employment tribunal case that goes against them that calls for the employment tribunals judgement to be lawfully followed - no more, no less.

    Just as when Labour ministers lost comparable cases when they were in office. I don't remember Ed Balls for instance resigning when he lost a comparable case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #4738
    If that's true Ed Balls should have resigned.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job. I'm not sure why you keep saying that. It's like you think they should do their job regardless of the working conditions. That's not something we accept in the private sector, and it should be no different for civil servants.

    I'd expect any boss to be fired or resign if found guilty of bullying or constructive dismissal. Especially cabinet ministers, who should be role models and setting an example for us all. We should hold them to the highest standards of behaviour.

  29. #4739
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Why would she?

    The Civil Service is there to impartially serve the elected government. If they can't do so they're right to bugger off and be replaced, that's not bullying. The elected government doesn't serve at the whim of some jumped up Sir Humphrey.
    Oh Jesus you utter tit, an incompetent and untrustworthy minister who bullies her staff and acts like a dumbass should resign. If she does not, she should be compelled to resign. Politicians are not elected to abuse civil servants.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  30. #4740
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    If that's true Ed Balls should have resigned.

    I'm not saying they shouldn't do their job. I'm not sure why you keep saying that. It's like you think they should do their job regardless of the working conditions. That's not something we accept in the private sector, and it should be no different for civil servants.

    I'd expect any boss to be fired or resign if found guilty of bullying or constructive dismissal. Especially cabinet ministers, who should be role models and setting an example for us all. We should hold them to the highest standards of behaviour.
    Well Balls didn't resign.

    In the private sector if someone sues for constructive dismissal (and simply sueing for it and being guilty of it are two very different things) then the person who sued is able to get compensation but the person who was sued is not automatically dismissed. Indeed potentially doing so could result in a new Employment Tribunal complaint for unfair dismissal!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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