The EU was pursing a comprehensive trade deal with the US until the US pulled the plug. It was Trump's decision to terminate the trade talks.
The EU was pursing a comprehensive trade deal with the US until the US pulled the plug. It was Trump's decision to terminate the trade talks.
Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer
Well well well. The US and EU have mutually decided to drop punitive tariffs - temporarily - in order to negotiate a more permanent solution.
Another benefit of Brexit.
Congratulations America
The negotiated deal had no chance of ratification by the EU.
Congratulations America
Where Britain leads ...
Yes, you're referring to the Trump admin's failed bid to bring the EU to heel by using a tactic similar to the one he used against Canada and Mexico. At the time, the deal was going nowhere, due to irreconcilable differences, so it's not entirely the US's fault. A few years later, both parties expressed an interest in de-escalation of the trade war. Ahead of the coming talks—assuming they are resumed—the EU's objectives are very limited, whereas the US's objectives are considerably more ambitious—but neither party is seeking a comprehensive FTA. Contrast that with the UK still being at square zero despite expressing a very strong desire to negotiate an FTA with the US. Why didn't you get further than this in the four years since the referendum and Trump's election? Looks like a failure to me—going by the asinine standard you've set up.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Except it didn't. It rolled over, and for rolling over it didn't even get a faster agreement. It has a government though in dire need of 'brexit dividends'.
Congratulations America
Twitter Link
"We don't want poor* students."
*regular
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
That's based on a complete misunderstanding of the scheme by an idiot on Twitter who doesn't know what its about.
The scheme is based upon reciprocity, where the incoming students fee costs are paid by their existing institution or government - with the same done on a reciprocal basis in reverse.
The "source" linked to doesn't mention tuition fee support, because tuition fees are covered reciprocally as part of the scheme so its not a grant the student gets, so the idiot assumed there was no tuition fee support as a result - and like a gullible idiot you drank it up immediately.
Wrong. The government hopes education providers will enter into agreements—with specific partner providers in other countries—to waive fees. There is no obligation to do so; the scheme is not "based on" reciprocity but on a hope of negotiations between institutions resulting in fee waivers. In practice, this greatly disadvantages students from poorer countries, as well as institutions in such countries, in addition to increasing the complexity and difficulty of setting up partnerships. Erasmus+ eliminates the need for such negotiations, explicitly guarantees funding in a way that helps poorer countries and poorer students, and is explicitly based on reciprocity. The two schemes are, at least at this point in time, very different.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Except Erasmus+ wasn't reciprocal.
Do you have any idea how much the UK was spending on it? How many British students went overseas with it? And how many came here with it? To match your notion of reciprocity?
Providers entering genuinely reciprocal agreements will be better than what we had and means that the claims of "no tuition fee support" is a lie because the tuition fee support is arranged via the reciprocal agreements.
There is no lie; the Turing scheme does not have any tuition fee support, except—possibly—for edge cases. Nor does it have any requirement for tuition fee waivers. Reciprocity for me does not entail everyone getting the same amount of cash at the end of the year. Many countries and their higher ed institutions have far less money than the UK and its institutions; there would be no real reciprocity if such countries would have to pay the UK's high tuition fees. The UK benefited greatly from Erasmus, by drawing talented and curious students from many different countries—and many different backgrounds—to its higher ed institutions and its economy, using EU subsidies. How much do you believe the UK was "spending" on Erasmus? What accounted for that spending?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
So you're against real reciprocity and would prefer the UK to carry the weight of other countries. I think we've gotten to the bottom of the issue.
Please reread what I said.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
OK. You view reciprocity as a bad thing. I don't.
A lot of people making a big deal about the UK's trade figures with the EU in January today, though they're pretty meaningless. There was a spike in trade in Quarter 4 as companies stockpiled, plus January we and much of Europe went into lockdown. So take any figures for January with a mammoth pinch of salt.
Interestingly though the UK's balance of trade with the EU improved by a billion pounds in January. As I said, probably meaningless as its a temporary trade effect.
Will be interesting to see what happens going forwards. February should be much more back to normal but still have a major Covid effect.
You seem to think you have a trade agreement with the EU. You don't.
Congratulations America
We do, it was implemented last year.
But Europe's the past anyway. CPTPP and USA (or even better both together if Biden rejoins the CPTPP) is the future.
While getting a trade deal with the USA would obviously be good, calling Europe the past just makes you seem petty, and let's face it, stupid. EU is the UK biggest and closest trade partner whether you like it or not. It's a large economy, and geographical proximity matters for a lot of trade.
I mean, if you just reply to hazir and aimless because they are the complete opposite, fair enough, but I do hope you realise that trade with the EU is (very) important for the UK.
Also I'd say the trade deal is technically still being implemented (so not last year), and I think I read that the UK is unilaterally breaking the deal yet again regarding implementation. But yes, there's a deal, obviously.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
The TCA is executed on a provisional and temporary basis untill the end of April. Extension is possible, if agreed by both parties. However, on the side of the EU agreeing to an extended application is only possible on the assumption that the EP is actually in the process of ratifying the agreement. As we know the EP has withdrawn the votes on the TCA and hasn't put any new votes on the agenda. With ratification up in the air as it is application may break WTO rules.
Other than that, no matter how much Randblade likes to remind us that 'Europe is the past', that doesn't make the UK part of any other continent. His dreams of other trade agreements make very little real life difference, if they ever become reality. Which is more than a little bit questionable. Because like I have pointed out before; the UK repetitively renaging on its agreements isn't making it a very attractive partner for other parties.
Congratulations America
Yes Aimless and Hazir are trolls that have gone off the deep end, you're not. Of course the EU will remain important for the UK but it is not the be all and end all.
It is quite literally in the past since the deal has already been signed, agreed and implemented and is behind us. Hazir loves to pretend that the European Parliament matters so is banging on about its ratification there but it is irrelevant, the deal has been done and is history, it is literally behind us. The future negotiations are elsewhere.
As time goes on Europe will always be important to the UK - just as the USA has always been important despite us having no formal connection or trade deal with them. But it will be increasingly less and less important as we diverge.
The UK isn't breaking the deal. The UK is implementing the Protocol (which is separate to and not a part of the deal) in the way we see fit, but that's a different matter and that's on us to implement while maintaining peace in Northern Ireland. Peace in Northern Ireland must come first. Of course some in Europe never cared about peace in Northern Ireland and only ever spoke about the GFA on a misunderstanding that all that matters was the Irish community in Ireland and not that there are two communities and that unfettered trade must flow in all directions as part of the GFA, not only on the land border. To do otherwise jeopardises peace. So the Protocol will be honoured in a way that fits the Good Friday Agreement, which is what the UK is doing.
Uhhh, the complete opposite of what?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
It's not just very important, it's the most important.
And trade with the EU since Brexit came in, exacerbated by Covid, has plunged, along with the UK economy.
Exports to EU plunge by £5.6bn in first month since Brexit
Fall of 40.7% comes as UK economy in January shrinks by most since first wave of Covid pandemic
UK exports of goods to the EU plunged by 40.7% in January during the first month since Brexit and the toughest Covid lockdown since the first wave of the pandemic, contributing to the biggest monthly decline in British trade for more than 20 years.
In the first month since leaving the EU on terms agreed by Boris Johnson’s government, the Office for National Statistics said goods exports to the bloc fell by £5.6bn, while imports fell by 28.8%, or £6.6bn.
Exports of food and live animals to the EU, which includes seafood and fish, were the hardest hit by Brexit, collapsing by 63.6% in January.
This reflected heavier disruption and additional checks for consignments from this sector that prompted furious protests from the fishing industry. However, food and live animals account for only 7% of total UK exports.
After stockpiling and disruption at UK borders in the run-up to the Brexit transition, the decline also came as the economy shrank the most in January since the first wave of the pandemic, with gross domestic product (GDP) falling 2.9% from the level in December.
The ONS said the January performance was the worst since monthly records began in 1997, as a 1.7% rise in non-EU trade, worth £200m, failed to make up for the plunge in cross-border activity with the UK’s biggest trading partner. Overall, global UK exports and imports fell by about a fifth.
Although January’s GDP figure represents the biggest contraction since the first lockdown almost a year ago, analysts had forecast a bigger decline of 4.9%, suggesting that businesses and households adapted better to harsh restrictions than during the first wave of the pandemic, when GDP fell by more than 20% in April 2020.
Experts said the scale of the decline in January trade was unlikely to be permanent because there was evidence companies stockpiled goods before the Brexit deadline, meaning they would not need to send as many shipments as usual in January. The decline was lower than a 68% plunge anticipated by road hauliers, while the ONS said there were signs trade had started to pick up at the end of the month.
The closure of shops during the Covid-19 lockdown reduced demand for clothing shipments, while car production fell and exports were weak to EU countries with coronavirus restrictions.
Alongside stockpiling, Covid disruption and lockdown, the ONS also changed the way it collects export data after Brexit, which could mean it takes longer to record some UK goods shipped to the EU. However, economists said Brexit still had a telling impact in January despite difficulty disentangling multiple pressures on the economy.
“Brexit made a bad situation worse in January,” said Samuel Tombs, the chief UK economist at the consultancy Pantheon Macroeconomics. “Our view remains that Brexit is best seen as a slow puncture, rather than a sudden blowout, with the costs gradually accumulating in the form of lower investment and immigration than otherwise would have been the case.”
Although the government has admitted that “teething problems” at the start of the new relationship have affected cross-border trade, business leaders are warning that lengthier delivery times and higher costs are likely to remain as an endemic feature of Brexit.
Suren Thiru, the head of economics at the British Chambers of Commerce, said: “The practical difficulties faced by businesses on the ground go well beyond just teething problems and with disruption to UK-EU trade flows persisting, trade is likely to be a drag on UK economic growth in the first quarter of 2021.”
The government on Thursday was forced to delay the introduction of further post-Brexit import checks by six months – a U-turn because a network of 30 border posts being built to process incoming goods would not have been ready on time.
...
Did you read the parts Tim about stockpiling, about the decline in trade being less than predicted, and the lockdown decline in the economy being less than predicted?
Thanks to the fact that Brexit Britain has dealt with Covid19 better than the EU I suspect we'll be growing faster than Europe this year overall.
Don't you feel it's a bit silly to talk about your country as "Brexit Britain"? You have no other identity than not-EU?
Congratulations America
I see you try to inhabit this odd middle ground where Brexit might make economical sense. Brexit does not, not under any scenario. It is the biggest act of national self harm short of starting a war. I am actually a bit irritated by your charactarization of me. It is reminiscent of the kind of way some people on this board would talk about me in the time before the British referendum. I was painted as some sort of extremist when I gave prediction of what the future relationship of the EU and the UK would be. As it happens, I was pretty much on the mark on how Brexit would work out, even before the first vote in that referendum was cast. I am not 'the opposite' of the happy monkey Randblade over Brexit. He deals in fantasies and unicorns. I am dealing with the facts.
Congratulations America
In the context of a Brexit thread? No, it works.
In other contexts I wouldn't use it.
There is a certain level of irony that for all the EU's much vaunted display's of "unity" that so soon after this process finished came a crisis to demonstrate the UK acting alone was able to perform better than the EU scelerotically acting united to the lowest common denominator.
The thread title is rather wrong now. Brexit's closed now, its done and the door has been slammed shut now with the EU freaking out hysterically about how well Britain is doing.
Unlike you I don't have the unstoppable urge to compare the EU with the UK. We have nothing to prove.
Congratulations America
Indeed yep, those are all mentioned and I noted them - all relevant points. The overall message though, is, despite these points, the decline.
Aye - highly likely.Thanks to the fact that Brexit Britain has dealt with Covid19 better than the EU I suspect we'll be growing faster than Europe this year overall.
I'm not sure what bearing that has here though. Covid or not, both the EU and the UK are worse off with reduced trade following Brexit.
We need to be trading less with states further away, and more with states closer to us.
That's rather xenophobic. Why?
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