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Thread: Brexit Begins

  1. #5161
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    Seems like the new border between the UK and the EU is going to be between London and Kent.
    Congratulations America

  2. #5162
    Barnier's bluff has been called on food. So much for that one!

    https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/ent...b6718910f4349b
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #5163
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    What "bluff"?
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  4. #5164
    The bluff that the EU was going to deny us the right to trade food. He tried to play it tough, got blew back much harder and now he's dropped that idea completely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #5165
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    The bluff that the EU was going to deny us the right to trade food. He tried to play it tough, got blew back much harder and now he's dropped that idea completely.
    Typical sloppy reporting by a British news site. There hasn't changed anything since the so-called row started; the listing still hasn't been done. The British government still has to provide the asked information. Barnier also isn't mandated to award the status which is basically a technical matter.
    Congratulations America

  6. #5166
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    The first legal procedure against the UK has started. This one against the mere fact that the proposal of a law violates the written principles of the WA.
    Congratulations America

  7. #5167
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  8. #5168
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The first legal procedure against the UK has started. This one against the mere fact that the proposal of a law violates the written principles of the WA.
    Joining the over 800 other infringement procedures the EU has got open including 50 against Germany alone and lodged with a court to which the UK is not a part of its jurisdiction anymore. Ooh wow.

    Aimless your Twitter link is broken.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #5169
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The nation is now significantly poorer, but at least sovereignty or something.

    Even if all the lies in favour of Brexit were to come true, fantastic trade deals struck up globally, their sum total benefit would pale into complete insignificance compared to this continuing loss to the country.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  10. #5170
    We'll see. You're pessimistic but I'm optimistic, we'll see who is right.

    More than 7,500 jobs are at stake either direction.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #5171
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Joining the over 800 other infringement procedures the EU has got open including 50 against Germany alone and lodged with a court to which the UK is not a part of its jurisdiction anymore. Ooh wow.

    Aimless your Twitter link is broken.
    First of all, the UK has recognized the jurisdiction of the ECJ already (it’s part of your body of law).
    But more important, since you are no longer a member state, it is the only case against a third country. On a matter which potentially impedes the ratification of any subsequent agreement. A case which now not even will go away if you retract the proposal.
    Congratulations America

  12. #5172
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    We'll see. You're pessimistic but I'm optimistic, we'll see who is right.

    More than 7,500 jobs are at stake either direction.
    Yeah, because after all; who’s working in the financial sector and who’s only right on Brexit by constantly lowering his expectations for what constitutes succes. You can’t live in optimism, nor can you turn into an edible meal.
    Congratulations America

  13. #5173
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    First of all, the UK has recognized the jurisdiction of the ECJ already (it’s part of your body of law).
    But more important, since you are no longer a member state, it is the only case against a third country. On a matter which potentially impedes the ratification of any subsequent agreement. A case which now not even will go away if you retract the proposal.
    Oh really? Which domestic law applies so that the ECJ could override the IM Bill?

    As a sovereign country the ECJ only applies to the UK to the extent that we choose to respect it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #5174
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Oh really? Which domestic law applies so that the ECJ could override the IM Bill?

    As a sovereign country the ECJ only applies to the UK to the extent that we choose to respect it.
    The CJEU's jurisdiction over this matter was agreed to by the UK, when it signed the withdrawal agreement. Your violation of international law is egregious enough as it is; if you compound that by violating the dispute resolution procedures provided for by a treaty you've signed, you will be regarded as little better than a rogue state. Only the equivalent of a Trumpist would try to portray that as a good or even tolerable situation.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  15. #5175
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Oh really? Which domestic law applies so that the ECJ could override the IM Bill?

    As a sovereign country the ECJ only applies to the UK to the extent that we choose to respect it.
    Another clear sign that you’re so ill informed that it would kind to just stare at the wall when you regurgitate nonsense again. This time even Farage got closer to the truth than you. Are you proud yet?
    Congratulations America

  16. #5176
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    Seems that VDL told the Council yesterday that 'no deal is better than a bad deal'.
    Congratulations America

  17. #5177
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Seems that VDL told the Council yesterday that 'no deal is better than a bad deal'.
    that would certainly change barnier's mandate
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  18. #5178
    Meanwhile in the real world BJ and UvdL have begun the real negotiations and are going to continue them regularly. Because a compromise will go past Barnier's mandate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  19. #5179
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Meanwhile in the real world BJ and UvdL have begun the real negotiations and are going to continue them regularly. Because a compromise will go past Barnier's mandate.

    You mean: De Pfeffel gave up another ultimatum hoping everyone had forgotten about it. Talks will be on an agenda set by the EU. As they have been since 2016. And FYI; the mandate of Barnier is the mandate of the Commission. And that means it doesn’t really matter if De Pfeffel calls Barnier or VDL.
    Last edited by Hazir; 10-03-2020 at 05:45 PM. Reason: De
    Congratulations America

  20. #5180
    von der Leyen can negotiate outside of Barnier's mandate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #5181
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    And what is the basis for this claim?
    Congratulations America

  22. #5182
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    von der Leyen can negotiate outside of Barnier's mandate.
    Just what is it you imagine vdl can do or is doing that is so substantially different from what Barnier has been tasked with doing that it changes the present situation in any meaningful way?
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  23. #5183
    I imagine that vdL as President of the European Commission has the authority to more easily make political compromises on behalf of the EU that she is the notional President of, especially since she is in regular conversation with national leaders too, in a way that is above Barnier's paygrade.

    You might wish to argue that she is a meaningless nobody and the President of the European Commission has no connection to the European Commission, but I'd like to see your logic if so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #5184
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I imagine that vdL as President of the European Commission has the authority to more easily make political compromises on behalf of the EU that she is the notional President of, especially since she is in regular conversation with national leaders too, in a way that is above Barnier's paygrade.

    You might wish to argue that she is a meaningless nobody and the President of the European Commission has no connection to the European Commission, but I'd like to see your logic if so.
    Genuinely bizarre worldview. The question is not whether or not the person is a meaningless nobody—or the office a meaningless office—but whether or not anything about the person, the politics, the negotiations or the law provides for a substantial change from the present state. No executive in any democratic institution has unlimited power to implement arbitrary decisions; they operate within a large number of constraints—some of which are very strong. Which specific political compromises do you expect to see her or the commission making that will significantly alter the current situation on their own?
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  25. #5185
    I expect her to agree to a compromise on state aid that is standard for treaties with sovereign equals, like the treaties with Canada and Japan.

    I expect her to agree to a compromise on fish recognising the UK's sovereign waters as the UK's waters.

    In other words I expect the UK to be treated as a sovereign country. Barnier's mandate he has been set is overly ambitious and unrealistic, but why not try for that, if he was negotiating against someone like May it may have worked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #5186
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    She can agree all she wants, it still has to be ratified by the member states, Rand. Because they, too, are sovereign countries.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  27. #5187
    No shit, Sherlock.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #5188
    Did you mean to just agree that EU countries are sovereign?

  29. #5189
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I expect her to agree to a compromise on state aid that is standard for treaties with sovereign equals, like the treaties with Canada and Japan.

    I expect her to agree to a compromise on fish recognising the UK's sovereign waters as the UK's waters.

    In other words I expect the UK to be treated as a sovereign country. Barnier's mandate he has been set is overly ambitious and unrealistic, but why not try for that, if he was negotiating against someone like May it may have worked.
    None of these fanciful developments would change any of the critical issues arising from the RoI—NI situation and from the UK's willful violation of international law; consequently, they would not alter the current situation on their own. Your characterization of Barnier's mandate as being "overly ambitious and unrealistic" is simply not credible; his mandate is to negotiate a deal that is in keeping with the EU's laws and its strategic interests, and also palatable to member states—or not arrive at a deal at all. If "no deal is better than a bad deal" is sufficiently ambitious and realistic for the UK, it is doubly so for the EU.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  30. #5190
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    OK. I have a day at the beach and you're responding to Randy like what he said makes any sense? There is no difference in the mandate between Barnier and VDL. The simple reason for this is that the mandate is drafted by the Council and then decided and given to the Commission. The Commission then charges people with the day to day negotiations. Barnier and his team are these people. They report directly to VDL. No part of the Commission has the powers to go outside of the mandate. The only body that can change the mandate is the Council.

    Which means that until you hear from the office of the president of the Council (Michel) nothing is going to change in the mandate. For the simple reason that the Council is not talking about any changes.
    Congratulations America

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