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Thread: UK Election 8th of June

  1. #301
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Failure to learn a thing or two after 30 years+ in Westminster is stretching even his stubbornness a little, though.

    And it's clear that his calculations about what was needed to do well in this election were a hell of a lot closer to the mark than May's. He was able to close the credibility gap a little with a fully costed manifesto, he was able to successfully identify and exploit voter concerns about Tory cuts, especially to the NHS and in the wake of the two terrorist attacks, police numbers and he was able to energise and turn out a substantial youth vote. He is an effective public speaker. Not quite up to Blair or Obama standards, but better than Brown or Milliband.

    May, on the other hand, profoundly miscalculated on several levels:

    * Decided to alienate an important part of the Tory base (old people) for no reason
    * Assumed UKIP voters would all come over to the Tories - they didn't. Not after Corbyn said he'd carry out Brexit and end free movement.
    * Didn't turn up for debates
    * gave the impression that she was making a bee-line for a hard Brexit for no reason, even when it's not clear that's what a substantial number of Leave voters actually want and it certainly isn't what Remainers want (and there are 48% of us, remember)
    * Just generally took a the electorate for granted
    * over focused on Corbyn's character, IRA links and so forth.
    * wasted campaign effort on the NE of England, where the Tories achieved a swing but still didn't actually gain seats.

    So who really lacks political nous?
    I said nothing about May being a political genius; clearly she miscalculated, badly, and there's little evidence she would have performed well in a general election (at least one against a competent challenger). I do question, however, how much of the Labour campaign and platform had anything to do with Corbyn. He seems terminally unhinged.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  2. #302
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    On the other hand, isn't trying to lure (back) UKIP voters what the Conservative Party has been about every since Cameron and his batch took over?
    No, Cameron was about winning over liberals, quite the opposite of UKIP voters which were dismissed as fruitcakes, nuts and loons.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No, Cameron was about winning over liberals, quite the opposite of UKIP voters which were dismissed as fruitcakes, nuts and loons.
    And for that he left the EPP and joined bunch of fruitcakes, nuts and loons in the EP ?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  4. #304
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Yes, he threw a bone in the EP and concentrated on the real Parliament that he was a part of.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yes, he threw a bone in the EP and concentrated on the real Parliament that he was a part of.
    And he reduced the country to a bystander in the process.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  6. #306
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    You were calling us a bystander before then for not being in the Euro. Which is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You were calling us a bystander before then for not being in the Euro. Which is it?
    You're trying to explain there is no way anybody could make a bad situation worse?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  8. #308
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I do question, however, how much of the Labour campaign and platform had anything to do with Corbyn. He seems terminally unhinged.
    None of regular Labour wanted much to do with so he was forced to make his shadow cabinet and team out of more fringe Labour types.
    Truth serves them
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    "For those who cling to this domination will partake in its fall"


  9. #309
    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-st...-a7783186.html

    So much for that. The crazy lady is just as out of touch as always.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  10. #310
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Good luck with that Theresa.
    Truth serves them
    Embrace and defend her case
    Part flattery, part threats
    "For those who cling to this domination will partake in its fall"


  11. #311
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Those terrible polls. Better rely on common wisdom again.

    https://today.yougov.com/news/2017/06/09/the-day-after/
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #312
    SEŃOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused. Did May announce a coalition with DUP before approaching their leadership about such a deal?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  13. #313
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Maybe she'll announce a Brexit deal without consulting the EU.

    So much for that coalition: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...enges-theresa/
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I'm a little confused. Did May announce a coalition with DUP before approaching their leadership about such a deal?
    So far it's not clear to me if there actually will be a coalition.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  15. #315
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I'm a little confused. Did May announce a coalition with DUP before approaching their leadership about such a deal?
    No there will be no coalition. What is being spoken about is known as "confidence and supply". This means it will be a Conservative minority government (as opposed to a Coalition majority one like 2010-15) with the DUP backing the government on major votes like votes of no confidence (confidence) and the budget (supply). The rest of governance will be done on a vote-by-vote basis.

    Loki: Ruth has explicitly denied the talk of a split on that story in quite clear terms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #316
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It would be a bit of a laugh if these elections return a hung parliament.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    That would be worth a chuckle or two, but it's not going to happen. I'd call 5%-10% victory for May.
    Just quoting the two first posts I saw in this thread after being out of a few weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    There are plenty of Congressmen who continue to get elected even though they're obviously unsuited for public office; that's what you get in a constituency based system rather than a party list system. Continued persistence in one's district can be down to any number of factors, including your district being way off the median in terms of political leaning. It doesn't really prove anything about your political skill. Corbyn being elected head of Labour is part of a broader trend that has little to do with the political genius of these politicians.
    Having interacted with a local politician for a local issue recently, I have begun to have some sympathy for the idea of killing-off regional systems. Though I worry a country as large as the US would lead to even more emphasis on mass-media and peer pressure than any real focus on ideology and problem-solving.

  17. #317
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #318
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Uh, making Farage a lord or involved in the Brexit negotiations is something that will cause trouble for May. Or her successor.
    Truth serves them
    Embrace and defend her case
    Part flattery, part threats
    "For those who cling to this domination will partake in its fall"


  19. #319
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    The advantage would be that while Farage hates the EU, at least he knows what he's talking about.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  20. #320
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    "B*****cks" again.

    If May went anywhere near then Graham Brady's postbag would be overflowing in no time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #321
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    The advantage would be that while Farage hates the EU, at least he knows what he's talking about.
    He's a troll, he's not serious.

    If you want to pick a British eurosceptic MEP who knows what he's talking about then Dan Hannan would be a much better choice. But it has to be an MP surely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #322
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #323
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Not at all surprising, the Labour party has had an incredibly good press from Thursday night onwards while the Tories have become shambolic.

    Election winners normally get a post-election boost in the polls and while May may occupy Downing Street she looks and smells like a loser with her moronic aides who sabotaged our manifesto with their own "genius" sacked. Corbyn meanwhile looks like the cat whose got the cream despite the fact he's still on the opposition benches. He's never been more secure in his job, 50/50 she's gone within the week.

    Good riddance if she does go, I can't stand her - and if I can't stand her what does that say about swing voters? I knew all along she was the wrong pick but utterly disappointed at being proven right so quickly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #324
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Usually, such polls are pointless. But you might very well have another election within a year.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #325
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Yeah and pre-campaign polls are clearly perfect right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #326
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I'd be less concerned about the exact numbers than the trend itself.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #327
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    I think if we've learned anything it's that public opinion over here can shift very quickly.
    Truth serves them
    Embrace and defend her case
    Part flattery, part threats
    "For those who cling to this domination will partake in its fall"


  28. #328
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Strong and stable.

    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #329
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Who are the 29% who have a favourable view of May and where have they been in the last month?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #330
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    She's officially less popular than Trump.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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