Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Whatever helps you sleep at night.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
They've had an easy ride so far because they only stand for 3 things:Originally Posted by RandBlade
1. No deal
2. Inciting anger by towing the "betrayal" line
3. Nigel Farage
And you've fallen hook, line and sinker for it.
But the fact that their unelected leader is Nigel Farage should be enough for you steer clear from them. He was there when you despised UKIP. It was his "leadership", and he's at it again.
You should have voted for the Tories or spoiled the ballot paper. You should never have voted for the Brexit Party.
Of your three things.
1: I'd more say they stand for saying we should actually Brexit, which we should have and still should. I'm prepared to vote for that.
2: We have been betrayed, we should have Brexited by now, we were promised we would and Parliament has let us down. I'm prepared to vote for that.
3: Nigel Farage. Still a t**t but trying hard to avoid his worst excesses which is good. If/when we Brexit he'll be made unemployed, I'll be happy with that.
I'm not voting for May's Tories. You forget a 4th thing that the party stood for which I voted for.
4: Sending a message to MPs (especially Tories) for their forthcoming leadership contest about what sort of leader we should get. I'm prepared to vote for that.
As long as you understand that by legitimising Farage and jokes like the Brexit "Party", you fuck us all over. Come the next few General Elections you'll sincerely regret the ridiculous decision you made.
I'm reminded of that old expression about laying down with dogs.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I didn't legitimise Farage and the Brexit Party. The MPs in Parliament who have frustrated Brexit have done so. The Civil Servants who accepted the utterly outrageous backstop have done so. Theresa May, Dominic Grieve, Jeremy Corbyn, Vince Cable etc have done so.
We made a controversial decision 3 years ago, but that decision has been betrayed. That has legitimised the Brexit Party. Had we left as we should have done in March, Farage would be a nobody now.
Arrogant people who think that Brexiteers are stupid, that the decision to Brexit was stupid, and that it should be frustrated or overturned. They are the ones who legitimised the need for the Brexit Party to exist. If our decision continues to be frustrated the anger will only rise. If we're still members of the EU by the next General Election then that will be one ugly election. Theresa May negotiated a ludicrously soft Brexit with an outrageous backstop but that still wasn't enough for the Remainers in the Commons so we shall have to vote accordingly to express our disapproval.
Hook, line and sinker.
Thanks for fucking the country
Brexit was an extremely stupid decision though; there is no Brexit that has actual benefits that won't screw over northern Ireland. The RoI may want an open border, but it is you who need it.
Congratulations America
Was anything I said wrong?
You to Brexit Party = Lewk to Trump. You can pretend to dislike some elements of the party, but you're already parroting their arguments, and it's only a matter of time before you're just another supporter.
Hope is the denial of reality
The part where you think that a really cool deal with no backstop is something that is actually possible, and the only reason it hasn't happened is because of those darn remainers was pretty special.
Like, the EU just has this sans-backstop deal ready to go and fuck the Irish, but they're not giving it out because.. May didn't use the right form of words? Wasn't "tough" enough?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Name one thing I've said in this thread I didn't say before the Brexit Party was created please.
That I don't like the backstop? Said that consistently for a long time.
That we should have left by now? Said that consistently.
That Parliament is messing around? Said that consistently. So too for that matter has Steely and others, its not controversial.
That I don't like May? Said that since before she entered Downing Street.
Its not parroting their lines when I've said their lines before they were formed, its agreeing with them. If the Tories don't get the shit together and if we don't Brexit properly and if the Party doesn't turn racist, then yes I probably will be a supporter. Me and millions of others. The Tories have no divine right to my vote if they won't implement what I've voted for.
The difference between me and Lewk is that Lewk parrots the party line of the GOP whatever that may be. So when it was Bush he was cool with whatever Bush did, when it is Trump he's cool with that. Had McCain been elected he'd have been cool with everything McCain did even though Trump and McCain are basically opposites. I'm different in that I vote for what I believe in and whom I think represents that best and right now that is NOT the Tories under May even though I may traditionally be a Tory. I'm not a blind tribalist and if my Party won't do what I want I'm prepared to leave my Party rather than change my beliefs to mirror what they're doing. If I was like Lewkowski then I'd have been defending everything Theresa May has done since taking over since she's on "my" side, rather than despairing of her and eventually finding an alternative. The equivalent would be Lewk saying he doesn't like Trump and voting Libertarian but that's not happening.
Of course its possible and of course May wasn't tough enough. Tough enough would be preparing to leave without a deal and that would fuck the Irish. See how long they reject an open border now with a deal without a backstop, when they're forced to put up barriers now. There's no magical need for a backstop, there's never been one in the past and its completely unprecedented and inexcusable.
I will back any candidate who says they want a deal without a backstop but will leave without one if that's not made available. And means it.
It would fuck the Northern Irish much harder. The backstop is what the Republic wants but it is what you yourselves desperately need.
And leaving without a deal will come at exactly the same price or higher than the WA stipulates.
Congratulations America
I couldn't care less if they get fucked. We don't need squat. It will fuck the Irish more than it will fuck the English and they're the ones who created this mess.
Yes, the English are the ones who created this mess
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Oh, aren't you forgetting your shitty role in all of this? Bloody Sunday and the centuries of abuse before all that?
You're probably even more responsible for that shitshow than anyone else on this planet. Don't try to weasel out of your deals now.
You realize that we can see you?
I'm only seeing that now. A really unfortunate example of his non-command of his own language.Yes, the English are the ones who created this mess
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
LOL I meant the Irish but glad you're amused.Yes, the English are the ones who created this mess
*Yawn*
You're just a broken record aren't you?
Let me know how you intend to resolve this little logic problem by being 'tough'.
Thinking about it, this is why my approach to solving algebra problems, which was glaring at them with a stern expression until they reveal their secrets, didn't get me a very good grade in GCSE maths back in the day. I'm older and wiser now, what's your excuse?
Yeah, we're going to force concessions out of them, by causing civil problems in our own territory which, the British, will then have to deal with. That'll show 'em. Great plan, you out fox'd 'em with that one.Tough enough would be preparing to leave without a deal and that would fuck the Irish. See how long they reject an open border now with a deal without a backstop, when they're forced to put up barriers now.
Yes, those "magical" things like the 'Good Friday Agreement' and 'EU Law' and 'the entire point of having a single market'There's no magical need for a backstop, there's never been one in the past and its completely unprecedented and inexcusable.
I like how "let's embrace the world" has turned into "let's tell the rest of the world, and also some of our own citizens, to go fuck themselves, wipe our ass our international commitments and, worst case, restart a ethno-nationalist blood feud that claimed 3500 lives and 50,000 injuries and generally throw our toys out of the pram in pursuit of the most blatantly crack addled foreign-policy project since Suez"
'I am extremely cross the very stupid thing I did is working out badly, now I doubling down on it because I believe this nasty situation will go away if we're stubborn enough'I will back any candidate who says they want a deal without a backstop but will leave without one if that's not made available. And means it.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Is there any group that's going to get fucked by a hard Brexit you do care about? Even a little bit?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
White English people who own pubs.
There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
And he decides who to free and who to blame
You're a vile man.
You don't care about screwing over an entire part of your own country?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Loki had it right.
Rand, there's a reason the people you are supporting are getting pelted with milkshakes. The whole "as long as I can pwn someone" is not a valid political stance.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Lewk takes pleasure in "pwn"ing Libs. I don't.
Bollocks. I don't want the Irish to be fucked. I want a deal with them. But if they refuse to negotiate then there's nothing we can do to force the matter. If they insist on getting fucked, then so be it. Their choice. We were wanting to negotiate. If they think they can avoid getting fucked by insisting we get fucked harder then I'm not OK with that.
Either we negotiate on equal terms, no backstop, or we worry about ourselves and screw anyone who doesn't want to negotiate with us their not our problem. When they're willing to talk we can talk.
That part of the country elected hard Brexiteers to represent them in the Commons. If they wish to elect someone other than the DUP they can.
I've been clear.
Let me know how you intend to resolve this little logic problem by being 'tough'.
Thinking about it, this is why my approach to solving algebra problems, which was glaring at them with a stern expression until they reveal their secrets, didn't get me a very good grade in GCSE maths back in the day. I'm older and wiser now, what's your excuse?
Preferred choice: Trade deal so there is no hard border between any of them. If there's a trade deal there's no border between B and C or A and D. Where have I said we must have a hard border between A and D?
Tough choice: We put the border between B and C.
If they want to negotiate as equals we can do so, I want a deal between the UK and the EU. That eliminates all borders. But if they're not willing to negotiate a deal then B and C is my choice. What's yours? How am I being illogical? Oh and your picture is wrong since it says Travel not Trade. Travel is not the issue.
Not just our territory. Theirs too. I would remain open to a deal with no backstop that would resolve the problems the second they're willing to talk on equal terms.Yeah, we're going to force concessions out of them, by causing civil problems in our own territory which, the British, will then have to deal with. That'll show 'em. Great plan, you out fox'd 'em with that one.
The GFA doesn't require it actually, EU law doesn't either (trade deals are an option under EU law) and we are leaving the Single Market. Next.Yes, those "magical" things like the 'Good Friday Agreement' and 'EU Law' and 'the entire point of having a single market'
Only if the Irish aren't willing to negotiate. The principle of the GFA was the the British and Irish would resolve issues diplomatically with a principle of consent. The backstop rides roughshot over that and the Irish are refusing to enter diplomatic negotiations. They're the ones violating the agreement not us. The second they want to drop the backstop and talk we can.I like how "let's embrace the world" has turned into "let's tell the rest of the world, and also some of our own citizens, to go fuck themselves, wipe our ass our international commitments and, worst case, restart a ethno-nationalist blood feud that claimed 3500 lives and 50,000 injuries and generally throw our toys out of the pram in pursuit of the most blatantly crack addled foreign-policy project since Suez"
Its not going badly. Its going fine. It hasn't happened yet and Remainers have sabotaged and betrayed it so far but we need to get rid of them and get on with what we voted for years ago.'I am extremely cross the very stupid thing I did is working out badly, now I doubling down on it because I believe this nasty situation will go away if we're stubborn enough'
FYI DUP doesn't represent a majority nor a plurality of the Northern Irish.
Congratulations America
You are all over the place with your thinking by the way. One moment you talk about fucking over the Northern Irish, the next moment you want to hold them in your death grip.
Congratulations America
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