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Thread: UK Election 8th of June

  1. #1
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Default UK Election 8th of June

    I thought we just had one of these? Anyway.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-39628713


    There wasn't enough political drama last year, apparently.

    People in the Labour party should be... concerned, they are about a billion points behind in the polls right now.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  2. #2
    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Awesome.

    I foresee a Lib Dem revival.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    "Scientists raise alarm: bananas can cause EU"

  3. #3
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Who do you want as PM? May or Corbyn?

    The one thing you can't say is that they're both the same.

    I confidently predict UKIP won't get even a single MP this time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #4
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    Can't say I care much either way.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  5. #5
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Some thoughts:

    * Has May done Labour a favour? If Corbyn does as badly as everyone assumes he will, he'll probably resign - she could potentially have gotten rid of a very weak Labour leader 3 years earlier than otherwise. Danger for Labour is if he performs badly, but out performs low expectations, he might decide to stay on then. They should really big up his chances so they can shit all over him when he loses.
    * Lib Dems are likely to see gains, but only back to pre-coalition levels.
    * I don't usually support Randblade's optimism about the demise of UKIP, but the timing of this election is awful for them. They're screwed.
    * Not keen on the Tories having a larger majority to be bellends with (the likely outcome), but I've always said May, like all unelected prime ministers (such as Brown), should have called an election after she became leader of the Tory party so I can hardly begrudge her for doing exactly that, even if it is for cynical reasons. It's a smart and correct move on her part, in any case.
    * The Fixed Term Parliament Act is a dead letter. The Prime Minister can just call an election whenever they feel like it, and the opposition parties basically have to go along with it our else risk having the government benches making chicken noises every time the leader of the opposition rises to speak (this would actually happen). It should just be got rid of as an artifact of the coalition era.
    * It is genuinely a good thing that the prime minster has a democratic mandate for her approach to brexit, even if it's likely to be a fucking stupid mandate.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  6. #6
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    You aren't interested in the plans they have about ruling the country after Brexit ?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  7. #7
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    From 'Brexit Begins' thread but I think Election discussions deserve to be in this thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Edit: apparently it needed a 2/3 vote in Parliament, and Labour is on board.
    Labour were literally left shellshocked by this. May announced it to the media and pathetically an hour and a half later the media had a response from the Lib Dems but still hadn't got a reply from Labour yet. It took Corbyn hours to respond to this news with a generic "we're up for the challenge and will take our message to the country" response.

    As soon as the media heard the words General Election it was on. No Leader of the Opposition could ever refuse and this pathetic excuse of one wasn't even invited to. Labour were dragged on board as this train ran them over.

    EDIT:
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #8
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Is this a nation or a fucking circus
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  9. #9
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Bit of both.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  10. #10
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    Can anybody explain to me what warped logic makes people think that a stronger mandate improves the British hand in the negotiations with the EU? I can understand how you would think it's easier to come to a deal because May doesn't have to pander to the craziest of her MP's, but a better hand vis-a-vis the EU? I really don't get how you can think that.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #11
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Can you link to any such comments?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Can you link to any such comments?
    https://www.ft.com/content/21e1e2ec-...1-d5f7e0cd0a16
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  13. #13
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Is this a nation or a fucking circus
    ???
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Can anybody explain to me what warped logic makes people think that a stronger mandate improves the British hand in the negotiations with the EU? I can understand how you would think it's easier to come to a deal because May doesn't have to pander to the craziest of her MP's, but a better hand vis-a-vis the EU? I really don't get how you can think that.
    An improved hand with one is an improved hand with the other. Any deal will need to apply to both so if she doesn't have to pander to the extremes (on both sides of any divide, the crazies are not all on one side) then she can be stronger and more confident.

    Also, as the FT article says, it removes the threat of an impending election at the end of negotiations. It was looking likely we'd agree to a three year* transition deal where we'd be out of the EU and thus no longer able to vote but still applying rules like free movement etc - arguably the worst of all worlds. An election would have taken place during this transition. A June 2017 election means that we can agree to a three year transition until March 2022 and then have a June 2022 election with the transition over and Brexit complete.

    * Talk of a three year maximum to any transition originated from the EU's side.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #14
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Fun fact: You guys now only have less than 15 months to complete the Brexit discussions. Three months just went poof because the talks will only begin after the election.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  15. #15
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Talks were only likely to begin in earnest after the German election anyway as I said all along.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #16
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    This is gonna be like that nonsense about negotiations before notification all over again.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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    THat whole nonsense about the talks only starting after the German elections is just another example of British hopeful thinking. It's not like any alternative to Merkel is going to give them a softer deal. The members also don't need to be that closely involved; that's why they are giving the Commission a mandate to negotiate on their behalves.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Am I the only one who thinks this is good? The referendum was only a yes/no without specifying how the 'out' would look. Now that the referendum has passed for me it only makes sense that you have an election where parties can run on a platform of how they want to go out and you'll have a government with a clear mandate of what the people want and negotiate on that basis.

    Of course when I said the same a few months back Rand disagreed IIRC, but I think this would be the right path. Sucks for labour maybe but that's their own mistake, nobody forced them to self destruct.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks this is good? The referendum was only a yes/no without specifying how the 'out' would look. Now that the referendum has passed for me it only makes sense that you have an election where parties can run on a platform of how they want to go out and you'll have a government with a clear mandate of what the people want and negotiate on that basis.

    Of course when I said the same a few months back Rand disagreed IIRC, but I think this would be the right path. Sucks for labour maybe but that's their own mistake, nobody forced them to self destruct.
    It's only good for us if May returns with a more reasonable parliamentary party backing her after the elections. If the same crazies as at present hold the whip, I don't see how it's going to be good for us.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  20. #20
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    If May holds a larger majority, she's less vulnerable to a potential parliamentary rebellion by Euroskeptic Tories if she returns with a deal that doesn't include the return of Aquitaine or the restoration of the House of Bourbon to the throne of France, or whatever the fuck those clown-shoes want these days.

    In short, if May has a good majority the EU side of the negotiations can be sure that whatever deal they agree is a deal Parliament will then ratify, whereas if she still has a majority of 5 she's either relying on there being no rebellions from Tories, or she's beholden to 1 or more opposition parties.

    Given that whatever deal ends up happen will almost certainly be a deal that fully pleases absolutely no one, that's probably a good thing for all concerned.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  21. #21
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flixy View Post
    Am I the only one who thinks this is good? The referendum was only a yes/no without specifying how the 'out' would look. Now that the referendum has passed for me it only makes sense that you have an election where parties can run on a platform of how they want to go out and you'll have a government with a clear mandate of what the people want and negotiate on that basis.

    Of course when I said the same a few months back Rand disagreed IIRC, but I think this would be the right path. Sucks for labour maybe but that's their own mistake, nobody forced them to self destruct.
    I think from memory I said it was possible but unnecessary. I never agreed with or respected the Fixed Term Parliament Act, but an election barely two years into the current Parliament seems weird.

    I did say myself repeatedly though that an early election was possible, depending upon who became the new PM. I believed May when she said that she didn't want one, but then so did everyone else it seems.

    I didn't like May at first [and for many reasons still don't entirely] but I am growing to respect her. She is the opposite in many ways to all of our PMs in my adult lifetime in that she keeps a very tight ship until a decision is made and is then very decisive once it is. That this decision caught everybody off guard rather than mounting speculation for months like under Brown is impressive.

    @Steely do you think you will be voting to give her a larger majority? Or for Corbyn to be PM of a Labour/SNP/LD "progressive alliance"?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #22
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    I'll vote Lib Dem.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  23. #23
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    From memory you always do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #24
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    I've voted Labour in the past, but basically yes.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  25. #25
    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Used to vote Lib Dem too, but went Tory in the last two GEs.

    Would certainly go Lib Dem this time if Farron weren't an evangelical nitwit. I don't want policy set by a man who's mind is with the fairies.

    When asked most recently if he thought homosexuality was a sin, his response was that we're all sinners.

    Clegg standing for Sheffield Hallam. Bring him back to lead the party I say.
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 04-20-2017 at 01:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    "Scientists raise alarm: bananas can cause EU"

  26. #26
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  27. #27
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Farron is a lightweight evangelical prat. He's as credible a leader as IDS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    +∞
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #28
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #29
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  30. #30
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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