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Thread: Terrorist attack in London

  1. #31
    Fuckwit does a similar move and ploughs a van into a crowd of muslims leaving a mosque in North London after evening prayer, killing one and injuring 10.

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC
    Finsbury Park attack: Man dies as van hits worshippers

    A man has died and 10 people have been injured after a man drove a van into worshippers near a north London mosque.

    The van struck people after mounting the pavement just after midnight BST outside Muslim Welfare House, near Finsbury Park Mosque. A 48-year-old man has been arrested.

    Home Secretary Amber Rudd said the attack was being treated as a "terrorist incident".

    Eyewitness Abdul Rahman said the driver said he wanted to "kill all Muslims".
    Mr Rahman told the BBC he struck the man and helped subdue him.
    "When the guy came out from his van he wanted to escape, run away and he was saying 'I want to kill Muslims. 'I want to kill Muslims.'
    "I hit him on his stomach... and then me and the other guys... we held him to the ground until he couldn't move. We stopped him until the police came."

    Counter-terrorism officers are at the scene, the Metropolitan Police said.
    And extra police are being deployed to reassure communities, especially those observing Ramadan, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan said.
    He also said his "thoughts and prayers" were with those affected by the "horrific terrorist attack on innocent people".
    "While this appears to be an attack on a particular community, like the terrible attacks in Manchester, Westminster and London Bridge it is also an assault on all our shared values of tolerance, freedom and respect."



    Harun Khan, secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain said: "Over the past weeks and months, Muslims have endured many incidents of Islamophobia, and this is the most violent manifestation to date.
    "We expect the authorities to increase security outside mosques as a matter of urgency."

    Many of the victims are believed to have just left evening prayers at the Muslim Welfare House after breaking the Ramadan fast.
    It has appealed for calm, adding that "all of our efforts should be towards getting justice for the victims and ensuring our community stays the diverse, tolerant and welcome place we know it to be".

    The prime minister will chair a meeting of the emergency Cobra committee later.
    Mrs May described it as a "terrible incident", adding: "All my thoughts are with those who have been injured, their loved ones and the emergency services on the scene."

    If confirmed as a terror attack it would be the fourth such incident in the UK in four months, after attacks in Westminster, Manchester and on London Bridge.

    The van driver was arrested after being detained by members of the public at the scene following the collision at 00:20 BST.
    Police said there were no reports of anyone suffering from knife injuries after speculation at the scene the driver was armed with a knife.

    Abdulrahman Saleh Alamoudi said he was among a group of people helping an elderly worshipper who had fallen down when the van swerved towards them.
    Video posted online of the aftermath showed a scene of chaos as people tried to help the injured.
    One man could be seen giving CPR to a victim in the street while another man's head injury was treated with a makeshift dressing.



    An eyewitness told how he jumped out the way of the van as it struck.
    He said: "He just came into all of us. There was a lot of people. We got told to move straight away.
    "I was shocked, shocked, shocked. There were bodies around me.
    "Thank God I just moved to the side. I just jumped. Everyone is hurt. Everyone is actually hurt."

    Another who lives in a flat on Seven Sisters Road told the BBC she saw people "shouting and screaming".
    "Everyone was shouting 'a van's hit people'.
    "There was this white van stopped outside Finsbury Park Mosque that seems to have hit people who were coming out of the mosque after prayers finished."
    She said the road was "backed up" with police cars, ambulance and fire engines.

    Some witnesses at the scene - near Finsbury Park Station and Arsenal's Emirates stadium - said more than one attacker may have been involved.
    But the Met said: "At this early stage of this investigation, no other suspects at the scene have been identified or reported to police, however the investigation continues."
    Mrs Rudd described it as an appalling incident.
    "We must all continue to stand together, resolute, against all those who try to divide us and spread hate and fear," she said.

    Environment Secretary Michael Gove said the attack was a "disgusting and immoral act".
    "Words fail me that someone could find it in their heart to behave in this way."

    Labour leader and Islington North MP Jeremy Corbyn said on Twitter: "I'm totally shocked at the incident at Finsbury Park tonight.
    "I've been in touch with the mosques, police and Islington council regarding the incident. My thoughts are with those and the community affected by this awful event."
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  2. #32
    Suicide by Muslim
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  3. #33
    Lock him up for life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #34
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    One can only hope that IS doesn't claim this attack also. Which isn't as crazy as it sounds by the way: this kind of civil war type interaction in Europe is exactly what they want to bring about.
    Trump: Lock him up.

  5. #35
    Extremist vehicle attacks random people in London, killing one and injuring several others:

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/06/1....facebook.com/

    Police have rescued a middle aged man from the crazed vehicle. Authorities are still trying to determine whether or not the deceased victim died of natural as opposed to vehicular causes. Meanwhile, some sources are reporting that the police may have referred to the incident as a

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    One can only hope that IS doesn't claim this attack also. Which isn't as crazy as it sounds by the way: this kind of civil war type interaction in Europe is exactly what they want to bring about.
    While I don't deny that a false flag operation by IS is at least technically possible (though I guess in your reading it wouldn't be false flag - otherwise they wouldn't take credit - perhaps all of the victims were kafir?), it seems way more likely that the attack was carried out by a white male Christian Briton.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    white male Christian Briton.
    All that is known about the sole suspect is that he is middle-aged, white, with tattooed arms, so yes fits the bill, and also fits the far-right stereotype.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  8. #38
    Comments on right-leaning Murdochite media have been downright frightening to read. This man was either an atheist, a Muslim infiltrator or a brave saxon warrior standing up for himself by defending the motherland from the onslaught of the Muslim invaders, upon whom he has exacted just vengeance by giving them a taste of their own medicine... and who can blame him? The right understands. This is why you need a travel ban. Won't anyone please think of the saxon children??
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #39
    Racists not the right. The guy is a terrorist and that has nothing to do with left or right economics. To just ascribe all racists to the right is lazy and ignorant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #40
    Oh, please. This is a no true Scotsman fallacy and you know it, RB. I can't speak to the motivations of this particular terrorist because I don't know if they are known yet, but in general racist-related political violence does indeed have a home on the far right, just like economically motivated political violence tends to have a home on the far left (think Red Army Faction). It hardly tars the entire right wing of politics to acknowledge that white nationalism and other similar incarnations are more comfortable on the right due to a variety of reasons.

    And to an extent, one can even point fingers and suggest that the right (or left) is partially responsible for fostering this sort of behavior. No, I'm not blaming the Conservative Party (or even UKIP or whoever) for the attack, but at least in the US fringe opinions are often tolerated - or even given a voice - by more mainstream groups interested in not alienating supporters. For the right in the US, cf Trump's failure to immediately repudiate David Duke, the increased stature of organizations like Infowars and Breitbart, the confederate flag/monuments controversies, etc. On the left in the US, you can look to the surprisingly credulous response to e.g. the Palmer report, the willingness to tolerate violent rhetoric from some elements of BLM/Occupy/other protest movements, etc. I would assume that there are similar issues in the UK though I'm by no means an expert.

    My point is that it's not helpful to stick our fingers in our ears shouting 'HE WASN'T ON THE RIGHT' because we (and any reasonable person) are horrified by his actions; if indeed his motivations were rooted in rhetoric that is somewhat mirrored in more mainstream right wing venues (e.g. strident anti-immigrant or anti-Muslim rhetoric), it's important to acknowledge that and reevaluate if the rhetoric - if not the underlying policies - should indeed be revised, and if greater efforts should be made to isolate and repudiate the kind of more extreme rhetoric that contributed to the terrorist's radicalization.

    Honestly this is the kind of response I find frustrating from the vast majority of decent Muslims who are horrified by Islamist political violence. Claiming that Islamist terrorists aren't real Muslims, while certainly theologically sound, is not a meaningful or useful response. It shouldn't be an excuse used by other groupings (political or religious) either.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  11. #41
    Sorry but you and Tim aptly used the words far right whereas Minx lazily just said right not far right. As much as I hate the term far right has a meaning and that is distinct and different to right.

    What is a fallacy is calling him right because he's racist and then saying all racists are on the right. That's a truism as you're simply defining it that way. That'd be like me defining all terrorism as Islamic and then saying that this racist was an Islamic terrorist because he was a terrorist and we have defined all terrorists as Islamic.

    Islamic terrorism is based upon Islamic teachings. This is if anything racist terrorism based upon racist beliefs. It has nothing to do with left or right, we know absolutely nothing about this guys politics or beliefs. All we know is he is racist so why make a jump rather than calling it as it is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Sorry but you and Tim aptly used the words far right whereas Minx lazily just said right not far right. As much as I hate the term far right has a meaning and that is distinct and different to right.

    What is a fallacy is calling him right because he's racist and then saying all racists are on the right. That's a truism as you're simply defining it that way. That'd be like me defining all terrorism as Islamic and then saying that this racist was an Islamic terrorist because he was a terrorist and we have defined all terrorists as Islamic.

    Islamic terrorism is based upon Islamic teachings. This is if anything racist terrorism based upon racist beliefs. It has nothing to do with left or right, we know absolutely nothing about this guys politics or beliefs. All we know is he is racist so why make a jump rather than calling it as it is?
    I agree that we don't know his specific motivations, sure, but based on his choice of targets it seems likely he's more swayed by rightist rhetoric (including anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim rhetoric that has a very cozy home even in mainstream right wing media and parties) than leftist. We'll know more as things develop, of course, but it's not an unfair assumption for the time being. And while I have little interest in defending Minx's posts, he was specifically referring to the reaction by right wing (or far right) sources rather than the motivations of the terrorist himself. That doesn't require any special knowledge.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  13. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Racists not the right. The guy is a terrorist and that has nothing to do with left or right economics. To just ascribe all racists to the right is lazy and ignorant.
    I was describing the commentary that appears to be representative of the views of a significant portion of the current American political right, not the actual attacker himself. Why are you so eager to defend the right from the exact same kind of accusations that the right regularly directs against the political left?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That'd be like me defining all terrorism as Islamic and then saying that this racist was an Islamic terrorist because he was a terrorist and we have defined all terrorists as Islamic.

    Islamic terrorism is based upon Islamic teachings. This is if anything racist terrorism based upon racist beliefs. It has nothing to do with left or right, we know absolutely nothing about this guys politics or beliefs. All we know is he is racist so why make a jump rather than calling it as it is?
    Ironically, I've seen many apply precisely this reasoning in casting his actions as retaliation/revenge, defense, "temporary insanity", understandable emotional outburst, etc, only occasionally accompanied by lame caveats about how it's obviously not very smart to attack people with vans. A third of the comment threads begin with gloating or just mocking remarks about how British Muslims should get used to this, in reference to the persistently misquoted remark by Sadiq Khan following the bridge attack.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Ironically, I've seen many apply precisely this reasoning in casting his actions as retaliation/revenge, defense, "temporary insanity", understandable emotional outburst, etc, only occasionally accompanied by lame caveats about how it's obviously not very smart to attack people with vans. A third of the comment threads begin with gloating or just mocking remarks about how British Muslims should get used to this, in reference to the persistently misquoted remark by Sadiq Khan following the bridge attack.
    Well, actually, the deeper truth is that all sides have to get used to this as all sides are very fast to reject responsibility for the acts of their more extreme members. Wiggin pointed out; 'he's not one of us' is a phrase very often used. And for the simple reason that we instinctively know that that isn't quite true it drives a wedge much deeper between groups than the actual terrorist act all on its own could ever do. Muslims should not be surprised that they hear the same claptrap they use when somebody plows a van into a crowd 'in the name of Islam' as when someone plows a van intot a crowd 'in order to fight Islam'.

    The people who do this are never 'such nice guys', and the fact that the people around them thought just that untill they turned into vile murderers should make those people (and all of us think).
    Trump: Lock him up.

  16. #46
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 06-20-2017 at 12:24 PM.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  17. #47
    Oh boy gotta love the false equivalency going on there in your post OG.

  18. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ***
    *for some reason, it's refusing to end the quote, even though it's definitely tagged appropriately

    And I will STILL defend it because it's bog-standard imagery. We use it for goals and quotas at work. The city library is raising funds to renovate/expand the building and uses that for the accomplishment graphic, filling in concentric portions as we get nearer and nearer the total needed (there is also one that's a bar-graph inside, hanging above the reference desk).
    By the way, we all remember the massive hooplah after that shooting. Why is it you haven't uttered so much as a peep about the mass-shooting against the GOP Congress-critters last week, OG? You're oddly as silent as the NRA has been over the Castile shooting.
    Last edited by LittleFuzzy; 06-22-2017 at 07:54 AM.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  19. #49
    I haven't made any threads here about any of the attacks. Just like you. I think the only person who has mentioned the baseball shooting is lewk when he tried to blame Bernie Sanders by hijacking an unrelated thread.

    But I can point out that for stuff like this twitter is always useful.

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

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