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Thread: Justine Diamond

  1. #1
    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Default Justine Diamond

    What the heck happened here?

    Quote Originally Posted by BBC
    Justine Damond: Australian PM calls shooting 'inexplicable'




    Australian PM Malcolm Turnbull has said he will seek answers from US authorities over the "inexplicable" death of a woman shot by a policeman.

    Justine Damond, originally from Sydney, was killed in Minneapolis after calling police to report a possible crime.

    The incident is under investigation by US authorities, who say they cannot compel the officer to give a statement.

    Mr Turnbull said his government is determined to learn what "went tragically wrong".

    "How can a woman out in the street in her pyjamas seeking assistance be shot like that?" he said on the local Nine network on Wednesday.

    "It is a shocking killing, and yes, we are demanding answers on behalf of her family."

    US media reported that Ms Damond, 40, was dressed in her pyjamas and had approached the driver's side door of a police car when she was shot on Saturday.

    Officer Mohamed Noor, who was sitting in the passenger seat, fired his weapon across his partner and through the driver's door, striking Ms Damond in the abdomen.

    Every police officer and squad car in Minneapolis is equipped with cameras, but the incident was not recorded.

    Minneapolis Mayor Betsy Hodges said she is seeking information as to why Officer Noor and his partner had failed to activate their cameras.

    "We cannot compel Officer Noor to make a statement," she said.

    "There are big questions left that we still have and that we hope to have answered soon."

    On Wednesday morning, hundreds of people gathered for a dawn vigil at a Sydney beach to honour Ms Damond.

    In silence, attendees including her family and friends lit candles and released pink flowers into the ocean.

    "We are here to come together as a community around our beautiful Justine, to honour her life, share our love and mourn her death," Ms Damond's family said in a statement ahead of the vigil.
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  2. #2
    Trigger happy cops working under the impression that "fearing for your life" is a blank check for indiscriminate murder because a die-hard part of the population thinks that a cops life is worth more than a average citizens. Read through the BLM thread, you'll see what I mean.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 07-19-2017 at 02:39 PM.
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  3. #3
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    The chief of police resigned.

    That happened.

    If you're keeping score at home:

    Umpteen unarmed black citizens get shot: pfft, whatevs. plus he had a criminal record.

    One white woman get shot: police of chief resigns.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    The chief of police resigned.

    That happened.

    If you're keeping score at home:

    Umpteen unarmed black citizens get shot: pfft, whatevs. plus he had a criminal record.

    One white woman get shot: police of chief resigns.
    Not really an apples to apples comparison.

    1. Both cops had cams off. That's bull shit and if the chief of police isn't enforcing the use of body cams that is damn good reason for them to be forced to resign.

    2. The person who called the police was the one shot.

    3. The person did not have a criminal history.

    4. The person has a sympathetic story (engaged and relatively photogenic)

    5. The situation hit international news due to the person's Australian citizenship

    But of course its *ALWAYS* about race to you and the rest of your ilk.

  5. #5
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Thanks for making the point for us. We all know that your point #4 is really shorthand for being white. You certainly didn't make the same claim about Castile, an upstanding member of his community.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  6. #6
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    It's common for police body cams to be turned off or to malfunction. Obviously not grounds for resignation at any other time so I call bullshit on that one.

    Chief resigned because it was clear that this was going to be a huge shitstorm.
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  7. #7
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Seems like a couple of you guys are disappointed no matter what. No action taken, its bad. Police chief resigns, its bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It's common for police body cams to be turned off or to malfunction. Obviously not grounds for resignation at any other time so I call bullshit on that one.

    Chief resigned because it was clear that this was going to be a huge shitstorm.
    Said the other day on the BLM thread that there is no reason for body cams to be turned off. Defeats the point of even having them. The officers shouldn't even be able to switch off their body cams, any more than you'd tolerate an employee elsewhere turning off CCTV.

    A malfunction is an entirely separate issue.
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Thanks for making the point for us. We all know that your point #4 is really shorthand for being white. You certainly didn't make the same claim about Castile, an upstanding member of his community.
    Castile was unarmed, had called the cops himself and was in his pyjamas?

    Though I certainly would say Castile had a sympathetic story which is why it became such big news and an iconic story.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #8
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Not really an apples to apples comparison.

    1. Both cops had cams off. That's bull shit and if the chief of police isn't enforcing the use of body cams that is damn good reason for them to be forced to resign.

    2. The person who called the police was the one shot.

    3. The person did not have a criminal history.

    4. The person has a sympathetic story (engaged and relatively photogenic)

    5. The situation hit international news due to the person's Australian citizenship
    Literally all of those have been true of black victims in the past as well, except the last one.

    Here's a picture of a 7 year old black girl who was shot by a police officer while she was asleep:



    No resignations, and a mistrial for the officer in question.

    The Australia thing is new, I'll give you that one.

    But of course its *ALWAYS* about race to you and the rest of your ilk.
    Yeah, look, I've got some hard news for you that you might not be ready to hear, so brace yourself:

    It is about race. American cops unjustly shot black people more often and suffer less consequences because of racism.

    I realize that you rest of your ilk have problems with being told that racism still exists, snowflakes that you are, but I'm afraid you're just going to have to deal with it.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
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  9. #9
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Castile was unarmed, had called the cops himself and was in his pyjamas?

    Though I certainly would say Castile had a sympathetic story which is why it became such big news and an iconic story.
    In case you missed the point, the Lewks of the world will never find a Castile to be a sympathetic story precisely because Castile doesn't look like them.
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    Wow you really have to stretch for the example of Aiyana. Absolutely tragic but the officer's situation was FAR more understandable than in this one. Add in the international situation, the sardonic tragedy of the person calling the police for help getting shot and you have two very different stories.

    I'll even use a liberal source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5824684.html

    "They were conducting a police raid in search of a murder suspect who lived at that address — and being filmed for a reality TV show in the process — when Officer Joseph Weekley accidentally fired his gun. What exactly caused him to fire is still a matter of dispute. But the shot killed Aiyana."

    Here is a fundamental difference - this was a raid of a suspected *murderer's home.*

    Oh yeah and that murderer, the scum bag bitch Chauncey Owens was convicted of it.

    "He was swinging his weapon to point toward the couch, Weekley testified, when Aiyana’s grandmother, Mertilla Jones — who had been sleeping on the couch with the girl — smacked his weapon, an MP5 submachine gun, with her hand, causing him to pull the trigger. The bullet struck and killed Aiyana.

    At the time, Weekley said, he didn’t even realize he had fired his gun, thinking the shot had been fired by someone else. His lawyer later described it as a tragic accident."

    Now the grandmother says something else happened but her testimony contradicted itself. Even if her testimony was correct we have a situation where:

    A flash bang had just gone off and by any account it would be a chaotic situation. They were entering into a home where a murderer was potentially armed. Quick movement by occupants in the house. This was something that was actually potentially being *filmed* for reality TV (no intent to hide) and this wasn't an international incident.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Thanks for making the point for us. We all know that your point #4 is really shorthand for being white. You certainly didn't make the same claim about Castile, an upstanding member of his community.
    Oh give it a rest, you are a one trick pony. I would have had a little more respect if you went the gender route but of course it always has to come down to race for liberals.

  12. #12
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Wow you really have to stretch for the example of Aiyana. Absolutely tragic but the officer's situation was FAR more understandable than in this one. Add in the international situation, the sardonic tragedy of the person calling the police for help getting shot and you have two very different stories.

    I'll even use a liberal source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...n_5824684.html

    "They were conducting a police raid in search of a murder suspect who lived at that address — and being filmed for a reality TV show in the process — when Officer Joseph Weekley accidentally fired his gun. What exactly caused him to fire is still a matter of dispute. But the shot killed Aiyana."

    Here is a fundamental difference - this was a raid of a suspected *murderer's home.*
    And in the case you're suddenly switching against the police on, they were looking for an assault suspect and an apparently crazed person jumped out at their car from nowhere in the middle of a dark alley. But she's middle-class and white so all of a sudden the cop in this case can't be excused for his reaction. You're really sick, Lewk.

    And Loki can't go the gender route because you've demonstrated that *unlike with rape cases where you always think the woman is a lying whore* when it comes to police shootings you're happy to condemn the victim and make excuses for the perpetrators when the victim is a woman (or a child, or both) so long as they're black.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    And in the case you're suddenly switching against the police on, they were looking for an assault suspect and an apparently crazed person jumped out at their car from nowhere in the middle of a dark alley. But she's middle-class and white so all of a sudden the cop in this case can't be excused for his reaction. You're really sick, Lewk.

    And Loki can't go the gender route because you've demonstrated that *unlike with rape cases where you always think the woman is a lying whore* when it comes to police shootings you're happy to condemn the victim and make excuses for the perpetrators when the victim is a woman (or a child, or both) so long as they're black.
    Except that I haven't defend every police shooting...

    For example there was this bull shit where I absolutely blamed the police officer.

    http://www.miamiherald.com/news/loca...e90905442.html

  14. #14
    The police chief was forced out more than resigned. It took it 5 days to address the shooting because someone didn't want to put a murdered citizen above their own vacation. When a statement was made it was the worst tone deaf canned response that could have been made. People were starting to go after the mayor over this so the chief was sacrificed.

    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  15. #15
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    So does that make things better (less racist) or worse (less responsive)?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #16
    I think it reinforces the original claim I made in this thread.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  17. #17
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Agreed completely, rather than Steely Glint/Loki's counter-claim.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #18
    Which is comical claim considering you're one of the more annoying police lives > * supporters on this board.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  19. #19
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    No I'm not.

    I think everyone who has a reasonable right to self-defence has a reasonable right to put their own life > *. I don't restrict that just to the Police.

    If a mistake is made then I have supported sacking the officer concerned if on a balance of probabilities (civil level) they should have known it was clearly a bad shoot at the time - and prosecuting them for murder if beyond a reasonable doubt (criminal level) they did know it was a bad shoot at the time.

    I just don't support abolishing the strict bar on proving beyond a reasonable doubt that applies at a criminal level.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #20
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    the sardonic tragedy of the person calling the police for help getting shot and you have two very different stories.
    http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-pol...ath-police-his

    Spot the difference!
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  21. #21
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    http://www.ajc.com/news/crime--law/c...avis-shooting/

    No charges. No doubt because the US is a super liberal country
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  22. #22
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Pro-Tip for Lewk and Rand:

    For any given bullshit excuse you care to think up for American cops murdering black people in cold blood, then suffering 0 consequences I can simply reach into a metaphorical hat and pull out another case where whatever excuses you give did not apply and there were still zero consequences.

    That's the depth of the dataset we have to work with. If that fact alone doesn't tell you something, then I don't know what tell you.
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

  23. #23
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Please go ahead from that dataset and find me a case of cops murdering people in cold blood. Shooting someone who is armed (tragic though it may be) != murder in cold blood.

    Oh and yes I can spot a difference between a man carrying a gun getting shot and an unarmed woman in her dressing gown getting shot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #24
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Please go ahead from that dataset and find me a case of cops murdering people in cold blood. Shooting someone who is armed (tragic though it may be) != murder in cold blood.

    Oh and yes I can spot a difference between a man carrying a gun getting shot and an unarmed woman in her dressing gown getting shot.
    Out of the 559 people who are known to have been killed by police in 2017, at least 29 were unarmed (not gun, car, knife, or even toy weapon). Out of those 29, 16 were not even fleeing the scene.

    Regarding your earlier argument about body cams being on being the norm: in those 559 shootings, body cams were on in 57.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...hootings-2017/
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #25
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    So approximately 95% of people known to have been killed by the Police were armed and approximately 5% were not? Approximately 3% were neither armed nor fleeing?

    I didn't say body cams being on were the norm. I said body cams being on should be the norm. Body cams being off should not be an option. The only time a body cam shouldn't be filming is if it is faulty or obstructed. It should only be off when an officer is eg going into the toilet [the only place CCTV would never normally be found] and I can't imagine many shootings occurring in bathrooms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Out of the 559 people who are known to have been killed by police in 2017, at least 29 were unarmed (not gun, car, knife, or even toy weapon). Out of those 29, 16 were not even fleeing the scene.

    Regarding your earlier argument about body cams being on being the norm: in those 559 shootings, body cams were on in 57.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...hootings-2017/
    And that fact right there 57 out of 559 is why change is needed. And you saying "waaah even if the body cam is on it doesn't matter" DOESN'T help. Society should get serious about auditing the police to ensure they are using body cams.

    What is also amusing in the race solely lens you view things Loki is that more white guys have been killed than black guys by the police, despite the fact that there are more homicides commuted blacks than those committed by whites. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf And of course an overwhelming number of men have been shot over women (though again the overwhelming number of murderers are men so this makes sense).

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Pro-Tip for Lewk and Rand:

    For any given bullshit excuse you care to think up for American cops murdering black people in cold blood, then suffering 0 consequences I can simply reach into a metaphorical hat and pull out another case where whatever excuses you give did not apply and there were still zero consequences.

    That's the depth of the dataset we have to work with. If that fact alone doesn't tell you something, then I don't know what tell you.
    Are you surprised that more white people are killed by the police each year than black people?

  28. #28
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Are you surprised that more white people are killed by the police each year than black people?
    Why would anyone be surprised by this? There are many more white people in the US than there are black people. It has no bearing on the reality of institutional racism in law enforcement. Have you literally erased your memory of every single discussion we've had on this subject and decided to start over from the beginning?
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  29. #29
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Please go ahead from that dataset and find me a case of cops murdering people in cold blood. Shooting someone who is armed (tragic though it may be) != murder in cold blood.

    Oh and yes I can spot a difference between a man carrying a gun getting shot and an unarmed woman in her dressing gown getting shot.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-d...-aaron-bailey/

    http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/in...ecuff_man.html

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nati...icle-1.3291852
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
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  30. #30
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Are you surprised that more white people are killed by the police each year than black people?
    No? Should I be?
    To ends unknown, by means unworthy, to answer wishes long dead and gone
    Old, empty promises, a just reward for the blind
    Belief makes work for idle minds
    The only dream that matters is the one you wake up from

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