That whole #metoo thing

[Hazir]

Sorry but I can't take you seriously because your characterization of these stories simply do not match what I've read, at all. You should also consider the possibility--indeed the high likelihood--that, just as you have traumatic experiences you wish to keep to yourself, these women have similarly or more traumatic experiences they are hesitant to speak of publicly at this point in time. The stories likely represent the tip of the iceberg, and the stuff I've read cannot be characterized as trivial. At the very least, they describe the kind of behavior that gave rise to the campaign in the first place (see Weinstein), which is appropriate. You might also want to consider the question of whether or not you should be held up as a role model for others to emulate.

Interestingly it is your attitude which makes me understand why real victims of sexual abuse feel hesitation to tell their stories. The way you reacted in this thread was extremely dismissive when you were confronted with borderline sexual abuse. You were dismissive because I am a man. I bet you would not have dared to be so dismissive if a woman would have told you the same. You think you can afford to behave the same with a male rape victim? A man being raped isn't quite as bad because he doesn't have the female experience?

I also didn't put myself up as a role model. I suggested that we hesitate when people drape themself in victimhood for trivial reasons as it trivializes the experience of real victims and because it re-inforces a type of behavior between people in which even necessary physical contact becomes suspect.

[Aimless]

Interestingly it is your attitude which makes me understand why real victims of sexual abuse feel hesitation to tell their stories. The way you reacted in this thread was extremely dismissive when you were confronted with borderline sexual abuse. You were dismissive because I am a man. I bet you would not have dared to be so dismissive if a woman would have told you the same. You think you can afford to behave the same with a male rape victim? A man being raped isn't quite as bad because he doesn't have the female experience?

Mate, I have no desire to carry on a discussion about your personal experiences, those are not any of my business. I only wanted to say that you cannot use your personal experiences and an extremely selective reading of other people's accounts to dismiss their experiences as being trivial. You cannot use yourself as the yardstick for determining whether or not someone else's suffering is legitimate. You cannot declare your own capacity to endure/overcome harassment or assault to be the norm and then scorn women--or men--for failing to meet your personal standards. My intention was not to dismiss your experiences but to challenge your dismissal of other people's experiences. If my words had any other effect--and I recognize that it was foolish of me to fall into the trap of presumptively comparing experiences--then I can only offer a belated apology, but I cannot agree with your position that the stories being shared under the #metoo umbrella somehow trivialize or are themselves trivialized by other, worse stories.

To answer your loaded question about male survivors of rape, no, I don't think it's somehow "better" or "easier", nor do I think it's more appropriate for a professional to offer men the kind of tough-breaks style of coaching you've endorsed here than it would be to offer the same to a woman. I also do not believe you have the slightest interest in my opinions on this subject. That said, in real life, it would also be inappropriate to engage in a discussion like this in the first place. In real life, I do not believe it's appropriate or productive to theorize about real suffering, or attempt to compare one person's suffering to another's. As I have said elsewhere, I make exceptions for discussions on this forum where the rules of engagement are in very many respects different from rl.

I also didn't put myself up as a role model. I suggested that we hesitate when people drape themself in victimhood for trivial reasons as it trivializes the experience of real victims and because it re-inforces a type of behavior between people in which even necessary physical contact becomes suspect.

You're free to hold whatever views you like but obviously I disagree both with your characterization of #metoo as well as with your reasoning and your predictions. peace

[Aimless]

To get back to the subject of the #metoo campaign, this is a recording of the sting that ultimately led to this whole thing blowing up much later:

http://video.newyorker.com/watch/har...caught-on-tape

There are of course now also allegations of rape, but this is what led to #metoo primarily focusing on harassment, coercion, unsolicited and inappropriate touching etc.