Texas church shooting

[Enoch the Red]

Link fixed and the attitude was from knowing that despite clear evidence of the GOP saying one thing and doing another you were going to do your usual dance of talking in circles with your fingers in your ears.

I haven't for one second questioned the willingness of a politician to do one thing and say another. Perhaps you could offer a more full throated defense of the proposed regulation and how you believe it would help.

[Steely Glint]

Well, you wouldn't. Because except in even rarer circumstances you can't identify whether someone would have been a mass-shooter (as opposed to looking for a single target for a single homicide, murder-suicide, or suicide-by-cop) unless they've already gotten past that hurdle you ask about them being stopped at.

It's a rather peculiar presentation but when you think it through this is a chicken and egg situation.

I think the same things that make that true are what makes it hard for an armed civilian to effectively stop a mass shooter before they're able to kill anyone: they don't look like a mass shooter until they start, well, shooting.

Again, many, (most?) of these shootings occur in places where law abiding citizens can not legally carry a gun, or are otherwise prevented from carrying a gun by the property owner, including schools, workplaces, casinos, and depending on the state, places of worship. The monsters who plan these shootings are looking to give themselves every possible advantage, including picking soft targets and areas where they likely would not be confronted with force.

So, are you agreeing with me, or...?

[Enoch the Red]

So, are you agreeing with me, or...?

If you are asking why more mass shootings aren't being prevented by armed citizens when armed citizens aren't allowed to carry in the areas most mass shootings take place, then I do agree with you. However, I don't think it's necessarily a point that favors your argument.

[Steely Glint]

If you are asking why more mass shootings aren't being prevented by armed citizens when armed citizens aren't allowed to carry in the areas most mass shootings take place, then I do agree with you. However, I don't think it's necessarily a point that favors your argument.

My argument is that it's very difficult for an armed citizen to prevent a mass shooting before the shooter has already killed or wounded a whole bunch of people, and you've come up with another reason that it's very difficult for an armed citizen to prevent a mass shooting that I hadn't mentioned.

How doesn't that help my argument?

[Enoch the Red]

My argument is that it's very difficult for an armed citizen to prevent a mass shooting before the shooter has already killed or wounded a whole bunch of people, and you've come up with another reason that it's very difficult for an armed citizen to prevent a mass shooting that I hadn't mentioned.

How doesn't that help my argument?

It doesn't take a lot of time for an armed citizen to draw a weapon and return fire, especially if they aren't one of the first victims. Granted, the murderer is working at a distinct advantage, but if they have had any kind of defensive training it can be done in a matter of moments, even accounting for the understandable initial shock of the situation. What is far more difficult, usually impossible, is for that same individual to return to a vehicle where a weapon has been stowed, or back home to their gun safe, and return in a reasonable amount of time to provide any material assistance. It's rarely an issue of capability - drawing, aiming, and shooting can be done with relative ease and speed, (and when I say relative, I mean relative, shooting with any degree of accuracy at a moving target, let alone one that is also shooting at you is far from easy) it's far more often a case of inability due to federal, state, or local laws with the individual being armed in the first place.

You'll note that often times when these kinds of shootings have been stopped, it has been by an off duty police officer. There are certainly any number of reasons for this, (including them working as off-duty security for the venue) but one that I find personally compelling is their ability to carry firearms in places your average citizen can not.

[LittleFuzzy]

I think the same things that make that true are what makes it hard for an armed civilian to effectively stop a mass shooter before they're able to kill anyone: they don't look like a mass shooter until they start, well, shooting.

Oh, I quite agree. The fact that most mass-shooters are stopped with a gun in the end provides very little comfort.