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Thread: Israeli's newest antics

  1. #1

    Default Israeli's newest antics

    Report: Israel attacks flotilla, 10 die
    Turkish network says 30 on pro-Palestinian ships are hurt
    Reuters


    msnbc.com staff and news service reports
    updated 1 hour, 1 minute ago
    HAIFA, Israel - Israeli Navy commandos attacked at least one of the six ships carrying pro-Palestinian activists and aid for blockaded Gaza, killing at least 10 and wounding several dozen on board, according to an Israeli TV network and a lawyer for the activists' group.

    Channel 10 said the final death toll could be higher as Navy commandos who boarded the convoy were still conducting searches and encountering often violent resistance from pro-Palestinian activists.

    Responding to accusations that Israeli commandos assaulted the ships guns blazing, Israel's Army Radio later said that passengers had tried to grab weapons away from soldiers boarding the flotilla.

    The al-Jazeera satellite channel reported by telephone from the Turkish ship leading the flotilla that Israeli Navy forces fired at the ship and boarded it, wounding the captain.

    The Turkish NTV network also reported an Israeli takeover with gunfire, and that at least 30 activists were wounded.

    The al-Jazeera broadcast ended with a voice shouting in Hebrew, "Everybody shut up!"

    The reports came just after daybreak, with the flotilla still well away from the Gaza shore. Israel had declared it would not allow the ships to reach Gaza.

    In Istanbul, Turkey, police blocked dozens of stone-throwing protesters who tried to storm the Israeli Consulate.

    The six-ship flotilla began the journey from international waters off the coast of Cyprus on Sunday afternoon after two days of delays. It had expected to reach Gaza, about 250 miles away, on Monday afternoon.

    Earlier, Huwaida Arraf, one of the organizers, had said two more ships would follow in "a second wave."

    The flotilla was "fully prepared for the different scenarios" that might arise, and organizers were hopeful that Israeli authorities would "do what's right" and not stop the convoy, she said.

    "We fully intend to go to Gaza regardless of any intimidation or threats of violence against us," she said. "They are going to have to forcefully stop us."

    After nightfall Sunday, three Israeli navy missile boats left their base in Haifa, steaming out to sea to confront the activists' ships.

    Two hours later, Israel Radio broadcast a recording of one of the missile boats warning the flotilla not to approach Gaza.

    "If you ignore this order and enter the blockaded area, the Israeli navy will be forced to take all the necessary measures in order to enforce this blockade," the radio message continued.

    Ships had changed course
    Al-Jazeera earlier reported that the ships initially changed course to try to avoid a nighttime confrontation, preferring a daylight showdown for better publicity.

    The flotilla, which includes three cargo ships and three passenger ships, is trying to draw attention to Israel's three-year blockade of the Gaza Strip. The boats are carrying items that Israel bars from reaching Gaza, like cement and other building materials. The activists said they also were carrying hundreds of electric-powered wheelchairs, prefabricated homes and water purifiers.

    Israeli Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said that after a security check, permitted humanitarian aid confiscated from the boats will be transferred to Gaza through authorized channels. However, Israel would not transfer items it has banned from Gaza under its blockade rules. Palmor said that for example, cement would be allowed only if it is tied to a specific project.

    This is the ninth time that the Free Gaza movement has tried to ship in humanitarian aid to Gaza since August 2008.

    Israel has let ships through five times, but has blocked them from entering Gaza waters since a three-week military offensive against Gaza's Hamas rulers in January 2009. The flotilla bound for Gaza is the largest to date.

    Some 700 pro-Palestinian activists are on the boats, including 1976 Nobel Peace Prize laureate Mairead Corrigan Maguire of Northern Ireland, European legislators and an elderly Holocaust survivor.

    The mission has experienced repeated delays, both due to mechanical problems and a decision by Cyprus to bar any boat from sailing from its shore to Gaza. The ban forced a group of European lawmakers to depart from the breakaway Turkish Cypriot northern part of the island late Saturday.

    Israel and Egypt imposed the blockade on Gaza after Hamas militants violently seized control of the seaside territory in June 2007.

    Israel says the measures are needed to prevent Hamas, which has fired thousands of rockets at Israel, from building up its arsenal. But U.N. officials and international aid groups say the blockade has been counterproductive, failing to weaken the Islamic militant group while devastating the local economy.

    In particular, the ban on building materials has prevented Gazans from repairing thousands of homes that were damaged or destroyed in an Israeli military offensive, meant to stop Hamas rocket attacks, early last year.

    Israel rejects claims of a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, saying it allows more than enough food and medicine into the territory. The Israelis also point to the bustling smuggling industry along Gaza's southern border with Egypt, which has managed to bring consumer goods, gasoline and livestock into the seaside strip.

    Commandos training to take ships?
    Israel has condemned the flotilla as a provocation and vowed to block it from reaching Gaza.

    Israeli military officials said they hope to resolve the situation peacefully but are prepared for all scenarios. Naval commandos have been training for days in anticipation of the standoff. Military officials, speaking on condition of anonymity under official guidelines, said the forces would likely take over the boats under the cover of darkness.

    Palmor said foreigners on the ships would be "sent back to their countries." Activists who did not willingly agree to be deported would be detained. A special detention facility has been set up in the southern Israeli city of Ashdod.

    At Gaza's tiny port, meant for small fishing boats, Hamas officials, activists and foreign nationals prepared to welcome the flotilla, sitting in some 40 small boats that were bobbing in the sea and decorated with the flags of the countries of the pro-Palestinian activists, including Turkey and Algeria.

    In other boats, Gaza boy scouts played music, while on shore, other activists released balloons with the faces of Palestinian civilians and militants killed in battles with Israeli forces.

    In Syria, eight Damascus-based Palestinian groups urged Arab and Muslim states to work to support the flotilla and warned Israel against committing any "foolishness to impede the vessels"

    "This could create more tension and trigger unpredictable reactions," said the groups, which included Hamas and the militant Islamic Jihad.
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37423584...deastn_africa/
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  3. #3

    The recording and cast from an Al Jazeera crew on one of the boats as they're fired upon and boarded in international waters by the Israeli Military.
    Turkey seems rather pissed, wants an emergency UN session, and they said their navy will be escorting future aid ships.

    http://english.aljazeera.net/news/mi...047995359.html
    Our correspondent said that a white surrender flag was raised from the ship and there was no live fire coming from the passengers.
    A collection of reports and such

  4. #4
    I'm sure the Turks will be too busy denying the Armenian and Darfur genocides. blaming every non-Muslim country in the world of committing genocide, and indiscriminately bombing northern Iraq to worry about this.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #5
    It will be very difficult to get a reliable first hand account of what happened. The Israeli videos, aside from proving the activists to be liars in at least one instance, don't prove much without context as there seems to have been at least one other ship involved; the Greek ship Sfendoni. If the Turkish navy really does decide to escort the next convey, the Israeli's will know they've been in a fight if they try and turn the back by force.
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  6. #6
    The first video pretty clearly shows the "peace activists" (many of them) attempting to kill Israeli soldiers. The Turkish military will do no such thing by the way. It's just another empty threat from Ankara.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #7
    boarding confrontations like this in international waters, thats bad right? Cause the best POV Loki has so far is after Israeli boards the ships, so I'm wondering why they were on them to begin with.

    The Al Jazeera video also shows the murdering beginning before the boarding, which the IDF I guess didn't want to video.
    Last edited by Ominous Gamer; 05-31-2010 at 09:25 PM.

  8. #8
    So, every other action the Israeli Military may have taken in the whole incident is justified by that? Gotcha.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    So, every other action the Israeli Military may have taken in the whole incident is justified by that? Gotcha.
    You mean shooting at people who were trying to kill them? No way.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    boarding confrontations like this in international waters, thats bad right?
    The legality of blockades has always been a gray area in International law. Being in international waters doesn't make much difference, but technically I think the Israeli's were supposed to search the ships and turn them back if they found 'contraband' items, whereas what they'd actually said they were going to do is divert the ships to their own port and detain and deport everyone on board.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You mean shooting at people who were trying to kill them? No way.
    So, what about the Sfendoni, which also seems to have come under fire from live rounds?
    When the sky above us fell
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    So, what about the Sfendoni, which also seems to have come under fire from live rounds?
    A lot of things that "seem" to have happened have been contradicted by video. I'd wait until there's a formal investigation.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    , but technically I think the Israeli's were supposed to search the ships and turn them back if they found 'contraband' items, whereas what they'd actually said they were going to do is divert the ships to their own port and detain and deport everyone on board.
    So we're still waiting for an excuse for why the fotilla ships were taking fire before the boarding?

    and whats up with disguising the weapons as paintball guns, a crazed PR attempt?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    Even presuming that the passengers fired first, since Israel boarded the ships in international waters, it was essentially an act of piracy. Last time I checked, you don't let people steal your boat without a fight.
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  14. #14
    Any excuse will do to kill Jews.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  15. #15
    Didn't I just say how hard it would be to get a non-biased, reliable first hand account of this whole thing? The eyewitness accounts of the 'activists' can hardly be relied upon to give an accurate account, and Israel won't allow an independent investigation, sooooo....
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  16. #16
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Any excuse will do to kill Jews.
    I'm really beginning to think that you're a troll, considering your increasingly irrational defense of Israeli.
    They could nuke a city without provacation and you would blame it on the rest of the Middle East.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Didn't I just say how hard it would be to get a non-biased, reliable first hand account of this whole thing? The eyewitness accounts of the 'activists' can hardly be relied upon to give an accurate account, and Israel won't allow an independent investigation, sooooo....
    I'm sure there's some good ballistic and video evidence out there. And I'm sure Israel will be forced to have an investigation that involves other states.

    "After several hours of radio communications and warnings that the Mavi Marmara would be boarded if the captain did not change his ship’s course, at 4 am Monday, OC Navy Vice-Admiral Eliezer “Cheney” Marom, who had set up a command post on the INS Victory, gave the order to Flotilla 13 to board the ship.

    The three Israeli Air Force Blackhawk Helicopters hovering nearby made their approach above the Mavi Marmara’s upper deck. Sitting on board, the naval commandos could just make out the few dozen activists gathered below. Carrying non-lethal weapons as well as pistols, the last thing the soldiers thought they would walk into was a well-planed lynch.

    “Armed with rifles that could shoot paintballs – which can hurt but not kill – the soldiers landed on the ship and immediately came under attack by dozens of activists armed with knives, bats and metal pipes. Activists grabbed soldiers and tried to hold them hostage, stripping them of their helmets and equipment.

    One of the soldiers tried to protect a commando who was being lynched by a group of activists. They were instructed by the flotilla commander to refrain from using their sidearm unless their lives were at risk.

    The force threw several stun grenades but the violent attacks continued. Two soldiers were injured and some of the activists succeeded in stealing one of the soldier’s guns. Shots were fired and one of the soldiers fell to the ground unconscious. Fearing for their lives, the soldiers asked and received permission to open fire, first taking aim at the activists’ feet."

    http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177040

    Quote Originally Posted by Supermarioman View Post
    I'm really beginning to think that you're a troll, considering your increasingly irrational defense of Israeli.
    They could nuke a city without provacation and you would blame it on the rest of the Middle East.
    I'm convinced that you're better off not exerting your mind too much and sticking to playing Mario.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #18
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I'm convinced that you're better off not exerting your mind too much and sticking to playing Mario.
    You are honestly incapable of debating with someone without pulling "I'm smarter then you card", aren't you?
    Are you insecure about something so you resort to insulting random strangers on the internet?
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  19. #19
    Steely, what about the Sfendoni? I see no reports of any injuries on any other ship.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  20. #20
    There are reports that weapons were also fired on Sfendoni, that's all I know.
    When the sky above us fell
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  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    There are reports that weapons were also fired on Sfendoni, that's all I know.
    Is that even relevant if no one was hurt? Weapons could be fired for a lot of reasons, and it's rather hard to know what those reasons are at that time of the night. From what I've read, the Israelis also weren't using live ammunition (from their drawn weapons), so the firing would have been with blanks, even if true.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  22. #22
    I thought they were using paint guns with loaded side arms as an emergency measure?
    When the sky above us fell
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    I thought they were using paint guns with loaded side arms as an emergency measure?
    Yes. So if there was fire at another ship, surely it would have been with the paint guns.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    It's pretty easy to see how something like this would get out of control. This convoy is meant to be provocative and challenge an Israeli response. I doubt the Israelis just waltzed up to these ships and started firing. Just like I doubt that these activists would be stupid enough to bring weapons on board.

    But as videos like this make clear, once Israeli soldiers board ships populated by people who have a certain predisposition towards the Israeli military...well things get ugly. It's easy to see how weapons might be taken, soldiers would get frightened (looked like a savage beating of soldiers with metal rods, throwing them off board) and live fire might open up.



    I only hope that those of us in media markets that lurve to indulge in vapid, knee-jerk criticism of the Israelis wait for more details to come out and a coherent narrative to take shape.

    Curious why they did this in international waters.

  25. #25
    Is that how they usually board ships to check for contraband? One by one, rapelling down from a helicopter into a group of people who are presumed "hostile" in the first place?

  26. #26
    I don't know, seems like a weird way to go about it. Though it's hard to imagine any part of the ship they wouldn't have met massive resistance.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    It's pretty easy to see how something like this would get out of control. This convoy is meant to be provocative and challenge an Israeli response. I doubt the Israelis just waltzed up to these ships and started firing. Just like I doubt that these activists would be stupid enough to bring weapons on board.

    But as videos like this make clear, once Israeli soldiers board ships populated by people who have a certain predisposition towards the Israeli military...well things get ugly. It's easy to see how weapons might be taken, soldiers would get frightened (looked like a savage beating of soldiers with metal rods, throwing them off board) and live fire might open up.
    I only hope that those of us in media markets that lurve to indulge in vapid, knee-jerk criticism of the Israelis wait for more details to come out and a coherent narrative to take shape.

    Curious why they did this in international waters.
    Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing Israeli for boarding the boat. There have been protest attempts to break the blockade before, and they've been turned back or redirected. The fact that this particular boarding went sour is likely not their fault.

    What is their fault is the fact that they decided to board the boats preemptively before they reached Israeli waters. The boats were flying under the flags of other countries, you can't just infringe on those countries territory without asking.
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  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Supermarioman View Post
    Just to be clear, I'm not criticizing Israeli for boarding the boat. There have been protest attempts to break the blockade before, and they've been turned back or redirected. The fact that this particular boarding went sour is likely not their fault.

    What is their fault is the fact that they decided to board the boats preemptively before they reached Israeli waters. The boats were flying under the flags of other countries, you can't just infringe on those countries territory without asking.
    Um, international waters do not belong to Turkey last time I checked.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #29
    Senior Member Evidently Supermarioman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Um, international waters do not belong to Turkey last time I checked.
    The boat flying under it's flag does.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters
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  30. #30
    Ships sailing the high seas are generally under the jurisdiction of the flag state;[2] however, when a ship is involved in certain criminal acts, such as piracy,[3] any nation can exercise jurisdiction under the doctrine of hostis humani generis.

    The ships were violating an Israeli embargo, which makes it illegal according to Israeli law.
    Hope is the denial of reality

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