Immigration cauldron boils over in Arizona

[GGT]

Under Arizona's new law, to take effect in 90 days, it will be a state crime to be in the country illegally, and legal immigrants will be required to carry paperwork proving their status. Arizona police will generally be required to question anyone they "reasonably suspect" of being undocumented -- a provision that critics argue will lead to widespread racial profiling, but that supporters insist will give authorities the flexibility to enforce existing immigration laws.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...rc=nl_headline

Required to carry paperwork proving their status

"Papers, please"?

[Nessus]

If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

[GGT]

If they have nothing to hide, they have nothing to fear.

There is nothing to fear but fear itself? No, this is more complicated than that. The US doesn't have a comprehensive immigration policy, so the states are ginning up the stakes.

A bunch of young adults hanging out in front of a club, maybe that's "illegal loitering" and a cop can ask them for ID. Everyone pulls out a student ID or driver's license, but that doesn't "proove" legal status. Can/should the cop use racial profiling to go the next step, "suspecting" they're illegals from....Mexico....?

Maybe they're part of a....Canadian....drug-dealing mob, but if they're white and speak English they get a pass?

[CitizenCain]

Maybe they're part of a....Canadian....drug-dealing mob, but if they're white and speak English they get a pass?

Sounds good to me.

So how do you make sure illegals aren't in the state of Arizona? The voters are pretty clear they don't want illegal immigrants in their state.

And what happens when/if the voters decide that they don't want black people in their state? Or "legal" Latinos? Or, even worse, what happens when the voters decide that they want to force everyone to buy health insurance?

[Lewkowski]

So how do you make sure illegals aren't in the state of Arizona? The voters are pretty clear they don't want illegal immigrants in their state.

[GGT]

So how do you make sure illegals aren't in the state of Arizona? The voters are pretty clear they don't want illegal immigrants in their state.

How would YOU? The purpose of this thread is to let people express their opinions, put forth suggestions, try to find solutions.

[Unheard Of]

So how do you make sure illegals aren't in the state of Arizona? The voters are pretty clear they don't want illegal immigrants in their state.

You could make it a really shitty place to live.

[GGT]

You could make it a really shitty place to live.

How many ways can you define shitty place to live? 102 degrees in the shade (but it's a "dry heat") or massive amounts of old geezers driving around on their way to golf courses (yes, it's an "industry") or transplants from the midwest who want green grass lawns (and private swimming pools, because it's so fucking (oops hit wrong key) SO FUCKING HOT that everyone wants central A/C and/or a pool, in a FUCKING DESERT?

[GGT]

Don't confuse Lewk too much, Cain. Texas is closer to Arizona than Massah-chewz-its. His head might explode if he has to think about ballot initiatives with health insurance (his employer), border interlopers (state's rights), and taxes (or federal immigration rules).

Hell, my head might explode just typing that.

[Dreadnaught]

I'm getting really irritated with the folks who say that this is a law to "intimidate brown people". That's bullshit —*a majority of the "brown people" in Arizona are citizens and they will rightfully sue if they are being asked for papers multiple times.

What concerns me more about this is the "papers, please" civil society that this encourages. It would be unnecessary if we could just control our freaking border. Laws like this are passing because our southern border is utterly out of control.

[']['ear]

There is nothing to fear but fear itself? ?

Fear is the mother of violence.

Gah, a "papers please" society? I'm guessing no aryans will be asked for their papers.

[agamemnus]

Fear is the mother of violence.

Gah, a "papers please" society? I'm guessing no aryans will be asked for their papers.

In Russia, police have the right to stop you and ask for your passport. Isn't it a democratic country?

[CitizenCain]

In Russia, police have the right to stop you and ask for your passport. Isn't it a democratic country?

Damn straight it is. And anyone who says different will be punished to the fullest extent of the law Putin's imagination.

[Flixy]

In Russia, police have the right to stop you and ask for your passport. Isn't it a democratic country?

Netherlands are a democratic country, but sadly the police can ask you for your ID here (but only if they have a real reason), and if you can't you get a 50€ fine.

[CitizenCain]

Netherlands are a democratic country, but sadly the police can ask you for your ID here (but only if they have a real reason), and if you can't you get a 50€ fine.

ID's different. At least over here. People typically carry their driver's license or a state ID with them, but the documents which prove citizenship/legal status are stored somewhere safe, because they're a bitch and a half to replace if they get lost or stolen.

[Hazir]

The part that I don't understand how a lot of people in the US can't differentiate between 'having no legal status' and 'being a criminal'. From there it's a small step to dehumanizing the subjects of the debate. I can understand if people want some sort of regulation of immigration, but this nonsense of illegal aliens as criminals is really too much.

[coinich]

The part that I don't understand how a lot of people in the US can't differentiate between 'having no legal status' and 'being a criminal'. From there it's a small step to dehumanizing the subjects of the debate. I can understand if people want some sort of regulation of immigration, but this nonsense of illegal aliens as criminals is really too much.

Unless I'm mistaken, its against the law to be present in that area; a trespassing of sorts, in which case its considered illegal. I think.

Sure, but before this, a cop couldn't walk up to you when you're walking down the street, or eating lunch, or whatever, and ask you for ID on suspicion of being Latino an illegal immigrant.

Yeah, I was just saying this almost seems as an extension of older actions.

[GGT]

I'm getting really irritated with the folks who say that this is a law to "intimidate brown people". That's bullshit —*a majority of the "brown people" in Arizona are citizens and they will rightfully sue if they are being asked for papers multiple times.

What concerns me more about this is the "papers, please" civil society that this encourages. It would be unnecessary if we could just control our freaking border. Laws like this are passing because our southern border is utterly out of control.

Begs the question---why is Regulation such a dirty word in America? Litigation is the better way, after the fact?

[CitizenCain]

Laws like this are passing because our southern border is utterly out of control.

No, laws like this are passing because Americans are fucking morons who buy into the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" bullshit that every politicians tries to sell his constituents in hard times.

And because, frankly, Americans have a huge demand for cheap labor, and border-hopping Mexicans are the only people desperate enough to spend 12 hours building a deck for some racist piece of shit for $50.

Begs the question---why is Regulation such a dirty word in America?

200+ years of history proving that government regulation is only good for making a bad situation worse, would be my guess.

[GGT]

No, laws like this are passing because Americans are fucking morons who buy into the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" bullshit that every politicians tries to sell his constituents in hard times.

And because, frankly, Americans have a huge demand for cheap labor, and border-hopping Mexicans are the only people desperate enough to spend 12 hours building a deck for some racist piece of shit for $50.

200+ years of history proving that government regulation is only good for making a bad situation worse, would be my guess.

That is speaking from both sides of your mouth/brain. Americans will pay for quality work to be done, not just cheap labor. Desperation isn't only in border hoppers and Government regulation is not the root of all evil, though I'm sure it helps you sleep at night to think that.

[Nessus]

No, laws like this are passing because Americans are fucking morons who buy into the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" bullshit that every politicians tries to sell his constituents in hard times.

And because, frankly, Americans have a huge demand for cheap labor, and border-hopping Mexicans are the only people desperate enough to spend 12 hours building a deck for some racist piece of shit for $50.

Out of this post, how much is genuine sympathy for the plight of the border-hopping poor brown immigrants, and how much is your own pent-up frustration with US immigration gobbledygook?

[GGT]

Ary-zone-ah?

[CitizenCain]

Sheesh. Here's a thought - if you don't want to hear the answer, stop asking the question.

[GGT]

Sheesh. Here's a thought - if you don't like conversation, stop going to internet forums.

[CitizenCain]

Sorry, Geegee... but the shadow game isn't even cute when 4 year olds do it.

[GGT]

Then don't do the "yes I am but what are you" 8 year old game. OK? okay.

[CitizenCain]

Look, there's nothing wrong with posting nonsensical, drunken gibberish (per se), but you have to be a lot funnier about it.

[GGT]

Look, there's nothing wrong with posting nonsensical, drunken gibberish (per se), but you have to be a lot funnier about it.

Sorry, I can get a good joke and laugh like a hyena, I just suck at telling any.

[CitizenCain]

Honestly, I think it's my hatred of hypocrisy more than anything else. Seriously, as a white guy who speaks English goodly, I could get convicted of serial kiddy rape and I'd still be in line behind about 400,000 brown people for deportation... so it doesn't affect me a whole lot personally.

But I just really despise this American attitude of "woohoo, cheap labor to help me put up a deck/clean the office toilets/strangle me in the shower while I pleasure myself," "land of the free," "Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..." but brown people are stealing all our jobs (which we wouldn't do anyway), so we need to deport them ASAP! One or the other, you stupid fucking cunts - you don't get to have it both ways.

Honestly, every time I hear some white asshole whining about illegal immigration I want to force him to clean the office toilets for $3 an hour and then tattoo the below cartoon on the inside of his fucking eyelids.

[Dreadnaught]

Begs the question---why is Regulation such a dirty word in America? Litigation is the better way, after the fact?

I don't follow the connection.

No, laws like this are passing because Americans are fucking morons who buy into the "immigrants are stealing our jobs" bullshit that every politicians tries to sell his constituents in hard times.

And because, frankly, Americans have a huge demand for cheap labor, and border-hopping Mexicans are the only people desperate enough to spend 12 hours building a deck for some racist piece of shit for $50.

Eh? I think you're way off the ball on this. The Arizona border has become immensely insecure and the drug violence from Mexico is spilling north. Just a few weeks ago a prominent local rancher on the border was killed, which helped pass this bill.

http://www.tucsonweekly.com/TheRange...ncher-murdered

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/05/us/05arizona.html

Obviously Americans love the benefits of immigration (and drugs) but can't get our laws to make sense of things. Which is the reason behind your personal hell.