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Thread: Bitcoin: The Future or Ponzi Scheme?

  1. #31
    we aren't there yet, but blockchains could replace notary services. Considering the public side of my work, I really really really really like that idea.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    A lot of altcoins have absolutely no reason to have value, and are where they are on pure speculation.
    People are more loudly saying that about Bitcoin now to. Its fees are to high and its way to slow. A bitcoin conference had to stop accepting bitcoin for ticket sales because of its shortcomings. Everything seems to be about Bitcoin Cash now, and its going to be devastating to a lot of people if Bitcoin Cash overtakes Bitcoin (i think its called bitcoin classic now?).

    and I think thats why a lot of altcoins are popping up. Hopping to profit off of bitcoin forking itself to death before a better cryptocurrency comes takes over.

    (or I seriously screwed up trying to figure all these out)
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  3. #33
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    The problem is that as secure as the technology may be (and let's not overegg how secure it truly is) there's nothing inherently valuable about any of these 'currencies' in themselves. People can easily switch to another one and that could leave any old ones utterly worthless. It's not like there's a business that has a patent over blockchain technology and only it can exercise that technology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #34
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I also fail to see how marginal improvements in a company's product justifies a 100% increase in stock prices.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  5. #35
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Such as?

    Specifically for those companies/"coins" that have shot up in value, not just theoretically?
    The best and most well-known example is Ethereum, which has enabled many others to set up blockchain-based products eg. implementing smart contracts on its own blockchain that cut out middlemen and reduce administrative overhead & delays. The kodak idea isn't new--using blockchains for digital media assets was an early proposal for the technology. Another commonly cited example of a blockchain application is a system that uses smart contracts for a flexible decentralized data storage platform. Many banks are developing blockchain-based platforms for making transactions and international settlements cheaper and a lot faster. In some developing countries, blockchain technology is being developed to enable reliable and secure payments between individuals and businesses, with built-in systems for handling exchange rates etc. One of my favorite ideas is a company that uses blockchain to manage a fraud-proof ticket system for events.

    It's true, many altcoins with their heavily publicized ICOs are mostly capitalizing on hype without having a high likelihood of delivering a useful product, but there's a large number of concrete, useful real-world applications for blockchains that either improve existing businesses or enable entirely new types.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #36
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Yes I get the theoretical practical uses for the technology but I'm not seeing how those uses are or can be patented by the companies and currencies that are leaping up in value. And without that I don't see why they specifically, rather than the technology in the abstract, should be skyrocketing.

    Lets say this technology is one day adopted by the banking sector as a form of clearing transactions. How does that make Long Blockchain Iced Tea or whatever its called today justify its value?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #37
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Ultimately it'll be the specific applications that create real value but we are currently not good at determining which ones will succeed and which will fail, nor do we have the slightest idea how to calculate the value of any given implementation. ICOs are one way for companies using blockchains to raise a lot of cash quickly (enabled by ethereum most of the time) but not all companies go down that route.

    Your question doesn't really make sense though. No-one here has indicated that they believe in blockchain iced tea or that the value of iced tea coins have anything to do with the value of blockchains in the baking sector.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #38
    I'm not seeing the connection between the cost saving of blockchain having anything to do with patents either
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  9. #39
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I'm not seeing the connection between the cost saving of blockchain having anything to do with patents either
    The idea is that anyone can in theory develop a blockchain application or system so no one single company has a significant and sustained competitive advantage. Of course, this is like saying that smartphones, software, credit card companies and a billion other products have no competitive advantages even though many plainly do.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  10. #40
    Unencrypted Wraith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    People are more loudly saying that about Bitcoin now to. Its fees are to high and its way to slow. A bitcoin conference had to stop accepting bitcoin for ticket sales because of its shortcomings. Everything seems to be about Bitcoin Cash now, and its going to be devastating to a lot of people if Bitcoin Cash overtakes Bitcoin (i think its called bitcoin classic now?).

    and I think thats why a lot of altcoins are popping up. Hopping to profit off of bitcoin forking itself to death before a better cryptocurrency comes takes over.

    (or I seriously screwed up trying to figure all these out)
    I have virtually no faith in Bitcoin remaining. They've fucked up their scaling story too badly, and the censorship and infighting in the bitcoin community doesn't make for a good environment for continued improvements. Right now, Bitcoin is coasting mostly on name recognition and first mover advantage, but I fully expect it to be dethroned in the near future. BCH is in a better position, but it also doesn't have a lot to recommend it over Ethereum.

    "Bitcoin Legacy" is the more popular renaming of BTC, I think.

  11. #41
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Ultimately it'll be the specific applications that create real value but we are currently not good at determining which ones will succeed and which will fail, nor do we have the slightest idea how to calculate the value of any given implementation. ICOs are one way for companies using blockchains to raise a lot of cash quickly (enabled by ethereum most of the time) but not all companies go down that route.

    Your question doesn't really make sense though. No-one here has indicated that they believe in blockchain iced tea or that the value of iced tea coins have anything to do with the value of blockchains in the baking sector.
    No-one here has indicated they believe in Blockchain Iced Tea but the fools easily parted with their money in the stock market have. That's the whole point of discussing and calling out this bubble. That business tripled its stock price by that stupid rename, they're already down to "just" doubled, no doubt reality will see them grounded ultimately too.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I'm not seeing the connection between the cost saving of blockchain having anything to do with patents either
    The issue is what justifies the specific increases in value for these companies/currencies. Is it a bubble or not? If a company/currency has developed patents that restrict their innovations to themselves that could justify their valuation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The idea is that anyone can in theory develop a blockchain application or system so no one single company has a significant and sustained competitive advantage. Of course, this is like saying that smartphones, software, credit card companies and a billion other products have no competitive advantages even though many plainly do.
    Bizarre analogy. Software companies and smartphone companies especially can be incredibly protective and litigious over their patents. Many tech companies have been bought specifically for their patents, while lawsuits between smartphone companies over patents have been major news discussed here previously.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #42
    Unencrypted Wraith's Avatar
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    A lot of the value is derived from the network and ecosystem. Those can't be copied.

  13. #43
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The best and most well-known example is Ethereum, which has enabled many others to set up blockchain-based products eg. implementing smart contracts on its own blockchain that cut out middlemen and reduce administrative overhead & delays. The kodak idea isn't new--using blockchains for digital media assets was an early proposal for the technology. Another commonly cited example of a blockchain application is a system that uses smart contracts for a flexible decentralized data storage platform. Many banks are developing blockchain-based platforms for making transactions and international settlements cheaper and a lot faster. In some developing countries, blockchain technology is being developed to enable reliable and secure payments between individuals and businesses, with built-in systems for handling exchange rates etc. One of my favorite ideas is a company that uses blockchain to manage a fraud-proof ticket system for events.

    It's true, many altcoins with their heavily publicized ICOs are mostly capitalizing on hype without having a high likelihood of delivering a useful product, but there's a large number of concrete, useful real-world applications for blockchains that either improve existing businesses or enable entirely new types.
    Here's the problem with Ethereum, though: It is not foolproof, it is remotely accessible and there's no human oversight over how the contracts act out when they do.

    Just think of the potential for problems if this thing takes off and then, sometime down the stream, we get a Spectre-type vulnerability.

    While I recognize the potential, I'm also deeply wary of the problems that will occur. We already have plenty of examples of problems with this technology.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  14. #44
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    100% Agreed Khen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #45
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Also just heard of a blockchain travel reservation company. Instead of working through a commission-generating online travel agency, your reservations are managed via a blockchain network.

    Seems like a neat idea, though wondering how this magically ends the role that online travel agencies play in bulk marketing. It's not like those economics vanish, though people are saying that is the implication of all this.

  16. #46
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  17. #47
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Here's the problem with Ethereum, though: It is not foolproof, it is remotely accessible and there's no human oversight over how the contracts act out when they do.

    Just think of the potential for problems if this thing takes off and then, sometime down the stream, we get a Spectre-type vulnerability.

    While I recognize the potential, I'm also deeply wary of the problems that will occur. We already have plenty of examples of problems with this technology.
    This goes without saying. See the DAO hack for example. All current technology comes with this risk. Possible that a large blockchain may be more resilient.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #48
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  19. #49
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    See this? This is my surprise face.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  20. #50
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    See this? This is my surprise face.
    LOL. This is mine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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