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Thread: Can American conservatism survive intact & unadulterated?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    If Congress demands something that cannot or should not be surrendered, Congress can absolutely get fucked. If Congress disagrees, I'm sure there are things it can try, but Congress–or, rather, the shady GOP fuckwits in it–prefers this absurd circus because these fuckers know they're wrong and they can do nothing but grandstand and undermine justice itself.
    So you don't think Congress has the ability to subpoena individuals for information? Or do you think bureaucrats are above the law?

  2. #182
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Aimless paint me a picture for me. Congress demands information on X via subpoena, DOJ official says "fuck off I'm giving you nothing and you can't make me." What is the legal remedy that Congress has?
    Persuade POTUS to cooperate.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  3. #183
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    So you don't think Congress has the ability to subpoena individuals for information? Or do you think bureaucrats are above the law?
    I think that neither Congress nor bureaucrats are above the law, and one consequence of that is that Congress may not compel bureaucrats to break laws and regulations, you ridiculous little wannabe stormtrooper. Really, you've been exceptionally dense these past few months.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    I think that neither Congress nor bureaucrats are above the law, and one consequence of that is that Congress may not compel bureaucrats to break laws and regulations, you ridiculous little wannabe stormtrooper. Really, you've been exceptionally dense these past few months.
    Yes submitting documents to the committees that already have security clearance is clearly illegal. Try again.

  5. #185
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Yes submitting documents to the committees that already have security clearance is clearly illegal. Try again.
    Those shady-as-fuck circus-clowns have requested upwards of 1,000,000 documents, and have been provided with 800,000 so far. DoJ has complied to the best of its ability and continues to comply. The DoJ has withheld some information on national security grounds, arguing that that information would endanger lives, eg. of confidential informants and other sources. Your Fox-news sourced opinions to the contrary notwithstanding, DoJ lawyers & other high-ranking officials have determined that this is permissible and appropriate even in some cases that involve dodgy Congressmen with oversight authority. Even so, they have tried to comply by sharing as much of that information as possible under their regulations.

    Now I understand that you're quite taken with Nunes, Goodlatte, Gowdy etc. because they're acting just like you so often do (ie. as if their shenanigans aren't ridiculously transparent to anyone with even half a brain) but it's pretty obvious they know they don't have a leg to stand on, because they're pursuing this matter as if they were indeed legally legless. You should acknowledge the information their behaviour gives us: these people are full of shit.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #186
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Aimless paint me a picture for me. Congress demands information on X via subpoena, DOJ official says "fuck off I'm giving you nothing and you can't make me." What is the legal remedy that Congress has?
    They can impeach the boss of the DOJ (POTUS) if he doesn't get his officials to cooperate. DOJ answers to POTUS not Congress.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Those shady-as-fuck circus-clowns have requested upwards of 1,000,000 documents, and have been provided with 800,000 so far. DoJ has complied to the best of its ability and continues to comply. The DoJ has withheld some information on national security grounds, arguing that that information would endanger lives, eg. of confidential informants and other sources. Your Fox-news sourced opinions to the contrary notwithstanding, DoJ lawyers & other high-ranking officials have determined that this is permissible and appropriate even in some cases that involve dodgy Congressmen with oversight authority. Even so, they have tried to comply by sharing as much of that information as possible under their regulations.

    Now I understand that you're quite taken with Nunes, Goodlatte, Gowdy etc. because they're acting just like you so often do (ie. as if their shenanigans aren't ridiculously transparent to anyone with even half a brain) but it's pretty obvious they know they don't have a leg to stand on, because they're pursuing this matter as if they were indeed legally legless. You should acknowledge the information their behaviour gives us: these people are full of shit.
    Redaction is obviously an option to shield agents and such. The issue is being able to pick and choose what documents you give in order to slant the perspective. The bottom line is that there was clear and obvious bias within the FBI and the DOJ and you really don't care because it hurts a political opponent.

    I want you to answer this question honestly.

    If Trump is innocent of collusion with Russia would you want the investigation be wrapped up right now if it meant that the mid-terms would keep the Republicans in power in both parts of congress. Or would you want the investigation to continue because you think Democratic victories will be better for the country?

  8. #188
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    The investigation should be wrapped up when it is complete. It isn't yet it is still digging up criminals breaking the law and resulting in prosecutions.

    It's also about more than Trump.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #189
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Lewk, why are you more concerned that Mueller's investigation might implicate Trump and/or his campaign in criminal activity....than what they'll find out about Russians who engaged in cyber warfare to influence our elections?

    You, like many Republicans in congress, are ignoring that Russian hacking started this whole mess.....in an effort to protect Trump? Making false claims about the investigation (political bias within the FBI, or some "vast conspiracy" within the DoJ; it's a Witch Hunt and Hoax, etc.) is the political strategy you ought to be concerned about, because it plays right into Russia's playbook.

  10. #190
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Okay is there some sort of handy summary of which Trump admin officials, GOP congressmen and state GOP lawmakers have been indicted or are expected to be indicted or have been otherwise disgraced by legal shenanigans this past year? I'm having difficulties keeping track of them all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Redaction is obviously an option to shield agents and such. The issue is being able to pick and choose what documents you give in order to slant the perspective. The bottom line is that there was clear and obvious bias within the FBI and the DOJ and you really don't care because it hurts a political opponent.

    I want you to answer this question honestly.

    If Trump is innocent of collusion with Russia would you want the investigation be wrapped up right now if it meant that the mid-terms would keep the Republicans in power in both parts of congress. Or would you want the investigation to continue because you think Democratic victories will be better for the country?
    This is a stupid question. The investigation should take however long it must take if it's conducted properly. We have no reason to believe it's taking an unreasonably long time. The claim in the first paragraph is a stupid claim; it's clear that there was a strong bias against Clinton in at least one major FBI office, and this had a direct impact on the election coverage. It's stupid for another reason: if there is any anti-Trump sentiment among the US's intelligence agencies, it's becoming increasingly clear that such sentiment is fully justified.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #191
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Not sure which thread to put this in but seriously these guys are scum!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #192
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Not sure which thread to put this in either but this is sad:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45301232
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #193
    Cancer sucks, the cancer he has sucks A LOT. Being in a position where the world was watching live as the cancer turned you into a bumbling fool sucks even more. McCain might be spineless at times, but he didn't deserve this.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  14. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Cancer sucks, the cancer he has sucks A LOT. Being in a position where the world was watching live as the cancer turned you into a bumbling fool sucks even more. McCain might be spineless at times, but he didn't deserve this.
    Agree he didn't. He was an American hero, should have won in 2008 and to this day I find Trump's bull shit attack on McCain's service to be the worst thing he's said.

  15. #195
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    RIP
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #196
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #197
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    That's a rather sick joke, if it is one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #198
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Agree he didn't. He was an American hero, should have won in 2008 and to this day I find Trump's bull shit attack on McCain's service to be the worst thing he's said.
    You do know McCain's campaign team actually regretted choosing Palin as his running mate, right? In hindsight, they've admitted a certain relief that he did NOT win, because it would have meant an ignorant, inept, emotionally unstable VP one heart beat away from the presidency (when McCain's age and health was already in question).

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    You do know McCain's campaign team actually regretted choosing Palin as his running mate, right? In hindsight, they've admitted a certain relief that he did NOT win, because it would have meant an ignorant, inept, emotionally unstable VP one heart beat away from the presidency (when McCain's age and health was already in question).
    McCain needed to shore up his conservative base and at the same time he wanted his rep as a maverick to help him win. In all honesty it was a solid political calculation and then the market and the house bubble imploded. At that point it didn't matter, Obama was a shoe in unless he did something monumentally stupid.

    As a side note, if Mccain had been elected he could have served one term and still been in decent health all the the people whining about his age would have been wrong as he died almost 10 years after the 2008 election.

  20. #200
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    McCain needed to shore up his conservative base and at the same time he wanted his rep as a maverick to help him win. In all honesty it was a solid political calculation and then the market and the house bubble imploded. At that point it didn't matter, Obama was a shoe in unless he did something monumentally stupid.
    You are wrong. McCain's campaign team has said Palin was a bad choice, so why do you insist it was a 'solid political calculation'?

    The mortgage bubble bursting and financial market implosion started in 2007. McCain's public statements were our economy is sound, this is just a normal recession, nothing to worry about. He wasn't just wrong, but out of touch with what was happening to The People.

    As a side note, if Mccain had been elected he could have served one term and still been in decent health all the the people whining about his age would have been wrong as he died almost 10 years after the 2008 election.
    I was one who thought McCain's age and health were questionable. When he picked Palin for his running mate, that became the overwhelming liability.

  21. #201
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Palin was rather unknown before he picked her. I don't think he realised just what a fruitcake she was until it was too late.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #202
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    Because he was a moderate. He needed someone to energize his base and Palin was a great pick for that.

  23. #203
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    What does that say about the base?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #204
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    That the base couldn't be arsed to support the party or oppose the Democrats or oppose Obama without an extremist to energise them apparently.

    You'd have thought stopping Obama/the Democrats would have been incentive enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #205
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    What does that say about the base?
    Establishment Republicans believe their base consists of extremists and halfwits. That is, incidentally, the base they've tried to create.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  26. #206
    I still want to believe that people like lewk aren't the base, just the vocal fringe of crazy that sets the discourse before the base gets energized enough to partake. Lewk likes to think thats the base cause it helps him justify his failings and includes him in a larger group of what he thinks are like minded people; it gives him a false sense of belonging. That fact that the GOP does so much to win the favor of these halfwits, racists and just plain spiteful people speaks volumes for how desperate the party has become to remain in power.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  27. #207
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Establishment Republicans believe their base consists of extremists and halfwits. That is, incidentally, the base they've tried to create.
    I'm not sure about that. The "establishment" Republicans included the "Never-Trump" people who still had respect for institutions and norms. They went along with the Trump base because they love power, and wanted a Republican in the WH, even tho that meant tacking to the far/extreme right.

    I think there were many establishment types who thought they'd be able to contain Trump's impulses and non-conservative policy ideas, because they knew the processes and how to get things done in DC. But that also meant they were "insiders"... and Trump's team did a good job at convincing *his* base that's a bad thing if they don't go along with *his* agenda.

    The halfwits are the (R) members of congress who don't stand up to Trump's extremism, because they're spineless cowards that only care about re-election, and power. They are the real "deplorables".

  28. #208
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    I still want to believe that people like lewk aren't the base, just the vocal fringe of crazy that sets the discourse before the base gets energized enough to partake. Lewk likes to think thats the base cause it helps him justify his failings and includes him in a larger group of what he thinks are like minded people; it gives him a false sense of belonging. That fact that the GOP does so much to win the favor of these halfwits, racists and just plain spiteful people speaks volumes for how desperate the party has become to remain in power.
    And I hope there are enough registered Republicans that either leave the party, or vote for Democrats in the midterms, that the GOP will be forced to reform itself. But their 2008 "autopsy" didn't do much, so who knows

  29. #209
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Brutal. Watch with sound on to the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  30. #210
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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