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Thread: Does Anyone Want to Discuss Star Wars? [Spoilers]

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    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    Default Does Anyone Want to Discuss Star Wars? [Spoilers]

    Just saw it. Who has seen it? Thoughts?

    Spoiler:
    The part where Luke just...disappears? Might be my least favorite part of the movie next to Rose kissing Fin

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    I enjoyed it immensely, flaws and all. I liked that part with Luke. I liked that scene with Leia in the beginning. I liked Hugs. I liked Snoke. I liked the revelation about Rey. I was skeptical about the admiral but loved the resolution of that plot-line. I liked the commentary on the jedi religion. Honestly, I tried to dislike the movie, but I just had too much fun to be particularly bothered by the plot-holes, the weird pacing errors, the typically iffy dialogue and clumsy acting etc. I enjoyed it much more than tFA, even though I think that was a more even movie overall.
    Last edited by Aimless; 12-21-2017 at 08:27 AM.
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    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    My feelings match Minxie's pretty closely.

    Thoroughly enjoyed it.

    And Luke's resolution worked for me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

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    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    I think what's bugging me is...

    Spoiler:
    what are we supposed to believe killed him? Spiritual exhaustion?

    Clearly we've seen that force-users can die (Snoke) but also not-die (Yoda...and Luke?). I thought they were setting up an Obi Wan parallel when they had him face off against Kylo Ren. Instead we got something weirder. If they were going to kill him off, why not actually kill him?

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    watched it hated it, you can see the detailed rant in the movie thread

    http://theworldforgotten.com/showthr...?t=981&page=64

    oh Luke's fate did not bother me at all as this trilogy is a bloody remake, think yoda in V.
    Last edited by Asmo; 12-21-2017 at 03:26 PM.

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    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Just saw it. Who has seen it? Thoughts?
    Good fucking god, in the Force Awakens it was bad enough that the tiny planet sucked up the entire mass of a star, and everyone being able to see the big gun's blast jetting across the sky even though they were totally someplace else - fuck the speed of light I guess, but here we have the bombers in space, that have to get right above their target in zero g, like maybe 2 hundred yards away, before they can attack. GOD that was so fucking stupid I honestly laughed out loud in the theater. As was the can't catch 'em chase that was the driving plot point for most of the action. Why not just light speed in front of them and cut them off? And if all you had to do to stop the bad guys is light speed your ship right through them, why not send the medical frigate into them before it ran out of gas and got blown up? Good lord, I just could not get past the utter stupidity of so much of the plot.

    I did like that they used puppet Yoda instead of the prequel CGI Yoda. Fuck you Lukas.

    @Dread - seriously, what's bothering you about this film is that Luke died mysteriously? Oy, man. The movie was bloody painfully stupid in so many ways. The stuff with Luke and Ray and Snokes and Kylo was the best part, the only reasonably good part, of the whole thing.
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    Overall had a good time, Star Wars is best when you don't think about it too hard. That being said Leia in space was particularly stupid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Good fucking god, in the Force Awakens it was bad enough that the tiny planet sucked up the entire mass of a star, and everyone being able to see the big gun's blast jetting across the sky even though they were totally someplace else - fuck the speed of light I guess, but here we have the bombers in space, that have to get right above their target in zero g, like maybe 2 hundred yards away, before they can attack. GOD that was so fucking stupid I honestly laughed out loud in the theater. As was the can't catch 'em chase that was the driving plot point for most of the action. Why not just light speed in front of them and cut them off? And if all you had to do to stop the bad guys is light speed your ship right through them, why not send the medical frigate into them before it ran out of gas and got blown up? Good lord, I just could not get past the utter stupidity of so much of the plot.

    I did like that they used puppet Yoda instead of the prequel CGI Yoda. Fuck you Lukas.

    @Dread - seriously, what's bothering you about this film is that Luke died mysteriously? Oy, man. The movie was bloody painfully stupid in so many ways. The stuff with Luke and Ray and Snokes and Kylo was the best part, the only reasonably good part, of the whole thing.
    Well, it's entirely a question of where you draw the line on disbelief .

    Ever since A New Hope flashed across the world in 1977, all space-going craft make noise in a vacuum. X-Wings and Tie fighters fly like aircraft with aerodynamics. Physics in the Star Wars world has to be taken with a fanciful fist of salt. I can't see the sense in cherry-picking which physical laws one can dismiss, and which ones to get annoyed about. Bomb's dropping as if gravity were applied, like from a B-52, is as nonsensical as the craft dropping those bombs making a noise, as nonsensical as the Dreadnaught not being able to catch the rebel cruiser and firing silly laser bolts at it which fade in power over distance, as nonsensical as said cruiser cutting the Dreadnaught in half with a jump to hyperspace. It's all plainly silly.

    To me, it's popcorn entertainment for the masses, not a demonstration of the properties of physical laws in outer space environments.
    And I ate my popcorn, and I was entertained.

    Suspension of disbelief is entirely subjective. Noise in a vacuum doesn't breach your suspension. Bombs falling without gravity does, it would seem.
    My line on disbelief is different. *shrug*
    Last edited by Timbuk2; 12-22-2017 at 12:55 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

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    That's no moon. EyeKhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Well, it's entirely a question of where you draw the line on disbelief .

    Ever since A New Hope flashed across the world in 1977, all space-going craft make noise in a vacuum. X-Wings and Tie fighters fly like aircraft with aerodynamics. Physics in the Star Wars world has to be taken with a fanciful fist of salt. I can't see the sense in cherry-picking which physical laws one can dismiss, and which ones to get annoyed about. Bomb's dropping as if gravity were applied, like from a B-52, is as nonsensical as the craft dropping those bombs making a noise, as nonsensical as the Dreadnaught not being able to catch the rebel cruiser and firing silly laser bolts at it which fade in power over distance, as nonsensical as said cruiser cutting the Dreadnaught in half with a jump to hyperspace. It's all plainly silly.

    To me, it's popcorn entertainment for the masses, not a demonstration of the properties of physical laws in outer space environments.
    And I ate my popcorn, and I was entertained.

    Suspension of disbelief is entirely subjective. Noise in a vacuum doesn't breach your suspension. Bombs falling without gravity does, it would seem.
    My line on disbelief is different. *shrug*
    There is a limit. The first film Star Wars - it was only titled A New Hope after the success of the first release and Lukas got a big money hard-on - had your classic SF vs Science problems, (noise, aerodynamic flight), but it wasn't flat out idiotic like these bombers, the slow-speed chase, and the lazer blasts that arced as if with gravity. Jeezus. You compared them to B-52s? Believe me, a B-52 has WAY more capability than the silly things in this dumb movie.

    I did like the red mineral whatever under the white salt layer. Looked really cool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    That being said Leia in space was particularly stupid.
    Oddly, this I can get over. It's Force magic. And it's been established that Leia has the force particularly strong, so, okay, whatever. Same with Luke's astral projection. Okay. Force magic, I get it. Works for me. And it killed him in the end, so it's not willy nilly bullshit. There's a cost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Oddly, this I can get over. It's Force magic. And it's been established that Leia has the force particularly strong, so, okay, whatever. Same with Luke's astral projection. Okay. Force magic, I get it. Works for me. And it killed him in the end, so it's not willy nilly bullshit. There's a cost.
    Eh but her body was getting frosty, how long was she in the vacuum? Its hard to tell with scene cuts but if its long enough to get frost on it she should be dead. Space isn't a great at freezing people quickly.

    It would have been better if she was flung out and then immediately used the force to drift back in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Eh but her body was getting frosty, how long was she in the vacuum? Its hard to tell with scene cuts but if its long enough to get frost on it she should be dead. Space isn't a great at freezing people quickly.

    It would have been better if she was flung out and then immediately used the force to drift back in.
    Probably sudden decompression would do lots of bad things to her body, like blow her lungs out her mouth, burst all her skin-surface blood vessels, pop her eyeballs, maybe boil her blood, and only freeze her after a nasty time of it. Yes, she would be in bad shape. And don't forget an exploding munition blasted open the ship's bridge before she was sucked into space, so, there's the heat and concussion from that too... But Force Magic, man. That's an easy one. It's the Force - it's strong with Leia. But it can't explain those dumb-ass, super-slow, ultra-short-range, zero-g as if there was g, bombers. Nothing explains that but complete disregard of even the least attention to sense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    Probably sudden decompression would do lots of bad things to her body, like blow her lungs out her mouth, burst all her skin-surface blood vessels, pop her eyeballs, maybe boil her blood, and only freeze her after a nasty time of it. Yes, she would be in bad shape. And don't forget an exploding munition blasted open the ship's bridge before she was sucked into space, so, there's the heat and concussion from that too... But Force Magic, man. That's an easy one. It's the Force - it's strong with Leia. But it can't explain those dumb-ass, super-slow, ultra-short-range, zero-g as if there was g, bombers. Nothing explains that but complete disregard of even the least attention to sense.
    Interestingly, I don't really find this all that annoying - obviously you have to recognize that they break all sorts of physics with their world, and just suspend disbelief for a couple of hours. One could even imagine some sort of logical explanation for some of the behavior - maybe the bombs 'drop' because they're not actually in free-fall, but suspended in some sort of antigrav field.

    No, what bothers me is when there are illogical things that happen inside the suspension of disbelief. For example, piss-poor tactics wrt an interdiction force, or the lack of broader uses of relativistic/FTL projectiles, or whatever. That really grates - in such a case, it's poor writing, not poor science.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

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    Stingy DM Veldan Rath's Avatar
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    Suspension of disbelief is always tricky, but good stories maintain their faux-physics (or what have you) consistently, so you know SOME rules are being followed and know what to expect.
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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Official explanation for the bombs:

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/12/t...ial-guidebook/
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Official explanation for the bombs:

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/12/t...ial-guidebook/
    That was actually a fun read. Choob's rant about the bombs is funny, because during that part I was in a quasi-rage that the bomb bay doors seemed to be open and the ship's atmosphere was intact. I know they have forcefields for that, but would they really do that for a bomber?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    That was actually a fun read. Choob's rant about the bombs is funny, because during that part I was in a quasi-rage that the bomb bay doors seemed to be open and the ship's atmosphere was intact. I know they have forcefields for that, but would they really do that for a bomber?
    I could have thrown the damn bombs, one at a time, from 10x as far away and been more effective than those idiotic "military" machines.

    This and the too-slow-to-catch-them chase are 2 examples of violently twisting the "rules" of the Star Wars universe, and of the most basic common sense, in order to suit the plot and the intro boom-boom action sequence (first, to show Ace Fighter Pilot's reckless behavior has consequences and second, to set up the conflict of what to do to save the rebels from looming total destruction). In other words, it's lazy writing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    No, what bothers me is when there are illogical things that happen inside the suspension of disbelief. For example, piss-poor tactics wrt an interdiction force, or the lack of broader uses of relativistic/FTL projectiles, or whatever. That really grates - in such a case, it's poor writing, not poor science.
    lol, you're crazy.

    Seems to be very little tactical innovation in the Star Wars universe. Defense- hide your base/ battle station behind a shield. Offense- crawl under or covertly deactivate the shield. Oh, and blow up planets. This covers Episodes 4, 5, 6, 1, 7 and 8 and Rogue 1.

    In Episode 2, 3 and 8 there's the tried-and-true recklessly throw all your assets at the enemy's meat-grinder with little or no tactical thought. This seems to be the go-to tactic of any sort of rebel group -- you know, the guys with the most to lose with said tactic.

    The original Star Wars combat scenes were fairly gritty, seemed to adhere to a decent set of "rules," appeared to have been constructed with some care and thought, and helped make the movie one of the greatest of all time. It's been all down hill, or down cliff, since...
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    Isn't the "slow to catch them" aspect almost the most believable in terms of Newtonian physics? All ships have a sublight constraint. If weapons have a range (I know, I know), once you put distance it's impossible for any ship to catch-up at sublight. It doesn't make sense that running out of fuel would allow a ship to lose distance, but hey, Star Wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Isn't the "slow to catch them" aspect almost the most believable in terms of Newtonian physics? All ships have a sublight constraint. If weapons have a range (I know, I know), once you put distance it's impossible for any ship to catch-up at sublight. It doesn't make sense that running out of fuel would allow a ship to lose distance, but hey, Star Wars.
    As depicted in the movie, the bad guy ships had almost the exact sub-light acceleration as the good guys (assume the chase was under constant acceleration, which is what allows out-of-fuel ships to be caught). The good guys were not out-pacing, nor were the bad guys gaining. That balance doesn't seem likely - big ships accelerate less than small, military more than civilian, etc... that's why there are different size warships, in part, to create a range of speed capabilities. And because the rebels are a bit ragtag and under-funded, it would seem the bad guy's more state-of-the art, better maintained, bad ass assault ships could run them down. (And that's not even considering the very limp reasoning of why bad-guy fighters couldn't be deployed, despite the huge advantage of having destroyed the rebel fighter capability). But my big complaint is that the bad guys, having a huge fleet, not all of which was even engaged in this chase, could just hyper-space in front of the good guys and cut them off.

    The whole "can't catch them" plot was so obviously contrived to create the story's drama, with lazy writers not bothering even a casual sanity check that it made sense. The whole thing is a huge plot hole, IMO.
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