US cops very frequently die on the job if they don't shoot first.
What comparable justification is there for swatting?
We had this discussion before. They don't, a certain level of risk is part of the job, they get little training in deescalation or use of firearms, and they have riot gear for a reason.
Hope is the denial of reality
Just because we've had this discussion doesn't mean we've reach a conclusion or agreement. You think a cop dying is an acceptable risk as part of the job, I don't. You think too few cops are dying and they should put themselves at much greater risk, I don't. You're willing to simply dismiss the thousands of American cops that have died this century on the line of duty and the tens of thousands injured as part of the equation as to why they pull the trigger, I'm not.
Other nations manage to get by without such a massive death toll for their cops dying at the hands of criminals which is the environment they're then pulling the trigger in. Why can't or won't the US solve that problem?
It is a more acceptable risk than the risk of them killing innocent people. In this matter, the two are often in opposition--you can't optimize both to zero. Either cops accept that their jobs entail a greater risk of being injured or killed than most other jobs, or we accept cops killing innocent people out of a desire to eliminate risk--both real and imagined--to themselves.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Why is it a more acceptable risk? The cops are themselves innocent people too. Collateral damage happens in war zones and it seems the streets of the USA aren't much better.
There is a third option which that that you address the root cause of the problem. American society shouldn't be comparable to a war zone.
It's a more acceptable risk because risk is an inherent part of a cop's job and they take on that risk voluntarily, for which they're generously compensated. The same is not true of their innocent victims. Firefighters also have a job that comes with inherent risk. The only way for a firefighter to nearly eliminate that risk is to never leave the fire station. The only way for a cop to nearly eliminate the risk inherent in working as a cop is to never leave the office.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
I'd like you to live in reality once in awhile. You don't hear about the thousands of cases where things went exactly like they should, you only hear about the cases where it doesn't. We are also talking about *people* not robots. Adrenaline, nerves etc do a lot. You can put the same guy in a hundred similar situations and maybe 99 times he gets it right but here, he got it wrong.
Do we need better training? Yes.
Do we need better screening before handing out guns and badges? Yes.
Do we need zero tolerance for destroying evidence or misplacing cam footage and/or turning off cams during operations? Yes.
But we can't expect police/citizen interaction with a report of an armed individual posing a danger to others to always turn out ideally. THAT is why it is critical 911 abuse and 'swatting' not be allowed to occur.
A cop that murders people or kills through recklessness is, similarly, a risk to other people, liable to harm more people unless he's held accountable. In this case, of course, we're talking about a person who didn't shoot at the cops.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Sure, but I don't think I'd charge them with murder.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Who said anything about nearly eliminating the risk? Not me. Today even with the so-called "trigger happy" cops, a cop dies on average by firearms alone every single week in the USA. Most years (though sadly not 2017) no cops die from any violent means let alone just firearms in the UK. America's f***ed up.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/1/2/16...y-toxic-fandom
Excerpt for our police apologists here:
Also:n Wichita, the local police force defended the killing of the unarmed Finch by saying that he didn’t hold his hands the right way when he answered the door and appeared to be reaching for something.
These sorts of familiar excuses for police violence are often buttressed by stern lectures from officers and random tweeters alike to always act thus-and-so around cops. But why must American citizens be drilled in reacting with military stoicism to having guns pointed in their faces — especially African-Americans, who bear the brunt of unwarranted police violence?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ther-countries
Fact: In the first 24 days of 2015, police in the US fatally shot more people than police did in England and Wales, combined, over the past 24 years.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Honestly make those kinds of comparisons is silly unless you look at how many police officers have been killed in England and Wales.
Lewk, you never miss an opportunity to "hope" for revenge, or use the police and/or penal system to inflict pain (even torture, or death), do you? Your quest for Law and Order is undone every time you say shit like that.
Instead of calling for better technology (that would help first responders do a better job), or better police protocols (that could save innocent lives), you jump to the lowest level of Fear & Consequences. No wonder "Fry 'em" is practically your middle name
Riiight. Fits in with your binary views. Only two types of people in the world, and one way to deal with them.....
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/01/02...r-charged.html
Attorney: Family of 'swatting' victim wants officer charged
In a letter Tuesday, Finch's mother, Lisa Finch, says officials are compounding the family's grief by not allowing her to see her son's body or returning it for burial.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
From what is coming out via the family members that survived, this is starting to sound like a coverup similar to how the police handled killing John Crawford. They handcuffed the family after the shooting, interrogated and intimidated them, took their cell phones and computers. Its ridiculous.
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
"In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."
Oh they operate in a different way? I mean to be sure people don't just do bad stuff just to do bad stuff, they do it for some gain or perceived gain. But ultimately those without a moral compass that prevents them from doing bad things will only not do bad things because the effort is greater than than the value they perceive it to be. The consequences are what keeps the savages in line.