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Thread: The Nunes Memo

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What was used to justify the FISA warrant outside of the Steele Dossier?
    Most of this info remains redacted, with only the relevant statutes noted in the apps.

    However, it begins like this:



    (with the redacted content--likely providing increasingly detailed information about those contacts w/ Russian intelligence--growing in size for each app)

    And continues like this:



    Transcript of intercepted convos between two SVR officers talking about Page:





    As for the Steele memos, the FBI was and remains satisfied that Steele is a reliable source, but of course they went to great lengths to provide independent corroboration. The Schiff memo points out that the FBI's counterintelligence investigation was initiated nearly two months before they received Steele's intel, based on other information that was available to them:

    https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000...1-edefe9d00001

    • Christopher Steele's raw intelligence reporting did not inform the rave decision to initiate its counterintelligence investigation in late July 2016. In fact, the FBI's closely-held investigative team only received Steele's reopening in mid-September—more than seven weeks later. The FBI – and, subsequently, the Special Counsel's – investigation into links between the Russian government and Trump campaign associates has been based on troubling law enforcement and intelligence information unrelated to the "dossier."


    • DOJ's October 21, 2016 FISA application and three subsequent renewals carefully outlined for the court a multi-pronged rationale for surveilling Page, who, at the time of the first application, was no longer with the Trump campaign. DOJ detailed Page's past relationships with Russian spies and interaction with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign, . DOJ cited multiple sources to support the case for surveilling Page—but made only narrow use or information from Steele's sources about Page's specific activities in 2016, chiefly his suspected July 2016 meetings in Moscow with Russian officials. . In fact, the FBI interviewed Page in March 2016 about his contact with Russian intelligence. the very month candidate Donald Trump named him a foreign policy adviser.

    As DOJ informed the Court in subsequent renewals, Steele's reporting about Page's Moscow meetings . DOJ's applications did not otherwise rely on Steele's reporting, including any "salacious" allegations about Trump, and the FBI never paid Steele for this reporting. While explaining why the FBI viewed Steele's reporting and sources as reliable and credible, DOJ also disclosed:
    • Steele's prior relationship with the FBI;
    • the fact of and reason for his termination as a source; and
    • the assessed political motivation of those who hired him.
    The FISA applications contain redacted sections that describe this information.

    Now you might chafe at the thought of having to take Schiff's word on anything, but let's be clear: we now know that Nunes lied about the contents of the FISA apps, and we have confirmed that some of Schiff's corrections were accurate.

    In closing, I must confess that I find the striking differences between your views on govt. surveillance of brown Muslim Americans (who might hold extremist views) and a non-Muslim white American (who has had suspicious contacts with intelligence officers of a hostile foreign nation and is strongly suspected of having committed numerous criminal violations of US statutes)... to be pretty hilarious. You're turning into a parody of yourself, Lewk.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  2. #62
    The underlying logic of trying to tie the FBI's investigation to the Steele Dossier ("The Steele Dossier is unverified, so the FBI shouldn't seek to verify it!") is a fairly significant tell that the people pushing that angle are not operating in good faith.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    The underlying logic of trying to tie the FBI's investigation to the Steele Dossier ("The Steele Dossier is unverified, so the FBI shouldn't seek to verify it!") is a fairly significant tell that the people pushing that angle are not operating in good faith.
    Agreed, but I understand that some may have issues with using such unverified info to obtain a warrant for extremely intrusive surveillance that can be used to verify the original intel. Of course, that did not happen here, even though the intel came from a reliable source.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  4. #64
    Fun part is that the judges who approved the warrant were all GOP nominees. He has gotten so desperate Lewk is no longer restricting himself to a low of party over country.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    The underlying logic of trying to tie the FBI's investigation to the Steele Dossier ("The Steele Dossier is unverified, so the FBI shouldn't seek to verify it!") is a fairly significant tell that the people pushing that angle are not operating in good faith.
    The Steele Dossier is a political hit job. The author hates Trump and risked his FBI contract (which he actually lost) because he leaked info to the press. So yeah the Dossier is a steaming pile of shit.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Fun part is that the judges who approved the warrant were all GOP nominees. He has gotten so desperate Lewk is no longer restricting himself to a low of party over country.
    Tell me again the success rate of FISA requests?

  7. #67
    Aimless - so all of that is... jack and shit without more parts being un-redacted. Let me ask you this - without the Steele Dossier would that FISA warrant been issued or was it the critical part of the justification for it? This is important because if it is the critical part and they did not disclose the details tot he FISA court about the obvious bias nature of it you have proof of some real shady shit in an election year.

    Secondly lets talk about this:

    "In closing, I must confess that I find the striking differences between your views on govt. surveillance of brown Muslim Americans (who might hold extremist views) and a non-Muslim white American (who has had suspicious contacts with intelligence officers of a hostile foreign nation and is strongly suspected of having committed numerous criminal violations of US statutes)... to be pretty hilarious. You're turning into a parody of yourself, Lewk."

    Monitoring PUBLIC FACEBOOK PAGES DOESN'T REQUIRE A WARRANT. In addition if you did want to push the envelope, I'd rather have people looking into actual terrorist threats then random spy games.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    The Steele Dossier is a political hit job. The author hates Trump and risked his FBI contract (which he actually lost) because he leaked info to the press. So yeah the Dossier is a steaming pile of shit.
    "Some of what was in the dossier was actually corroborated — but separately — in our intelligence community assessment, from other sources that we were confident in," Clapper said.

    "The salacious parts, no. That’s never been corroborated," he added. "It would appear to me that as time has gone on more and more of it has been corroborated, but I can’t actually give you a percentage."
    http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...ing-to-be-true

    The U.S intelligence community doesn't share your assessment.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Aimless - so all of that is... jack and shit without more parts being un-redacted. Let me ask you this - without the Steele Dossier would that FISA warrant been issued or was it the critical part of the justification for it? This is important because if it is the critical part and they did not disclose the details tot he FISA court about the obvious bias nature of it you have proof of some real shady shit in an election year.

    Secondly lets talk about this:

    "In closing, I must confess that I find the striking differences between your views on govt. surveillance of brown Muslim Americans (who might hold extremist views) and a non-Muslim white American (who has had suspicious contacts with intelligence officers of a hostile foreign nation and is strongly suspected of having committed numerous criminal violations of US statutes)... to be pretty hilarious. You're turning into a parody of yourself, Lewk."

    Monitoring PUBLIC FACEBOOK PAGES DOESN'T REQUIRE A WARRANT. In addition if you did want to push the envelope, I'd rather have people looking into actual terrorist threats then random spy games.
    Haven't you advocated for placing surveillance on mosques?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I'd rather have people looking into actual terrorist threats then random spy games.
    Translation: I'm a fucking moron.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Haven't you advocated for placing surveillance on mosques?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    IE red flags appear when someone does the following:

    Makes public pro jihad statements
    Goes to a radical mosque for worship
    Books a flight to the Middle East

    These things don't trigger persecution and prosecution they trigger investigation.

    [...]

    Now let me ask you this Loki. Do you think people should be investigated prior to a crime being committed? IE do you believe in a fully passive homeland security process? IE someone can say Osama is great (not illegal) book a flight to the middle east (not illegal) buy a bunch of weapons (not illegal) link to videos of be-headings (not illegal) and the police/FBI/homeland/insert relevant agency know all this and they should do nothing? I can't fathom the though process that would support this and I don't want to accuse you of actually thinking that so please let me know if this is actually what you want to see happen.
    Note: the above does not apply to white men who have become compromised by the intelligence apparatus of a hostile foreign country.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Enoch the Red View Post
    Haven't you advocated for placing surveillance on mosques?
    With appropriate red flags sure. Not every mosque that would be untenable from a manpower situation even if we wanted to.

  13. #73
    See above for examples of what Lewk sees as "red flags" and be amazed at the differences in standards between brown Americans and white Kremlin assets.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    See above for examples of what Lewk sees as "red flags" and be amazed at the differences in standards between brown Americans and white Kremlin assets.
    "Makes public pro jihad statements"

    That's a pretty big fucking red flag.

  15. #75
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    "Makes public pro jihad statements"

    That's a pretty big fucking red flag.
    "Meets with Russian intelligence officers"

    That's a pretty big fucking red flag.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    "Makes public pro jihad statements"

    That's a pretty big fucking red flag.
    Indeed, but slightly less red than actively collaborating with Russian intelligence officers for several years and lobbying on behalf of Russia while trying to hide that fact from authorities, in violation of several laws.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Indeed, but slightly less red than actively collaborating with Russian intelligence officers for several years and lobbying on behalf of Russia while trying to hide that fact from authorities, in violation of several laws.
    Wait so charges are coming for Carter Page? Oh yeah, I didn't think so.

  18. #78
    I wonder how many Muslim's who were subjected to FBI surveillance were never charged.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  19. #79
    From what I've seen (and I admit it's not much) it still seems like the Steele memo was a primary justification of the initial search. What's totally unclear is whether they found anything, and what that was.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    From what I've seen (and I admit it's not much) it still seems like the Steele memo was a primary justification of the initial search.
    "a"

    What's totally unclear is whether they found anything, and what that was.
    "Whether" is not unclear at all, it is extremely strongly implied by the multiple reauthorizations and the ballooning redacted text.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  21. #81
    So Aimless without the politically paid for Steele Dossier would the FISA warrant have been issued? Hell would it have even been requested?

  22. #82
    You didn't read about the released FISA documents showing the Steele dossier was clearly NOT the sole reason for the first warrant, and that even without it there was enough 'probable cause'? Also, those warrant applications have to be re-issued every few months, with new and compelling information required.

    Lewk, you may not like FISA courts (unless they're targeting Islamic Terrorists, of course) but they are working within the framework set up by congress and DoJ. And the panel of judges were all appointed by a Republican president.

  23. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    So Aimless without the politically paid for Steele Dossier would the FISA warrant have been issued? Hell would it have even been requested?
    It would have been requested or the FBI would've pursued other legal means of gathering foreign intelligence until they would've had sufficient evidence to justify a FISA warrant. This has been confirmed previously.

    Your dimwitted fixation with the dossier being "political" is not as insightful as you imagine it to be. Do you think that compromising information on criminals who are being investigated always come from their friends? Do you think people gladly snitch on their friends? Do you believe the feds are the friends of the people they investigate? The dossier ultimately having been commissioned by two separate political opponents is irrelevant if the claims are corroborated by other independently gathered evidence, which is why several judges independently authorized and reauthorized the FISA warrants despite knowing that the information was intended to be used by political opponents.

    Now, you and I both know that if a non-white petty criminal were brought to trial, you would want all available evidence to be used against that person, even evidence that had not been obtained legally. Dismissing that evidence would be unacceptable to you and you'd sneer at the absurd notion of letting criminals get away on technicalities. In light of this it is especially pathetic of you to oppose the entirely legal gathering and use of damning evidence against someone collaborating with intelligence officers from a hostile foreign enemy of the US. We all know why you've suddenly decided to change your standards, but it's pathetic nevertheless.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  24. #84


    You can't trust smoke alarms, as they come from manufactures who are ideologically opposed to fires.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  25. #85
    Well if you think about it fires are really in their best interests. Just saying.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  26. #86
    oh my god
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  27. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It would have been requested or the FBI would've pursued other legal means of gathering foreign intelligence until they would've had sufficient evidence to justify a FISA warrant. This has been confirmed previously.

    Your dimwitted fixation with the dossier being "political" is not as insightful as you imagine it to be. Do you think that compromising information on criminals who are being investigated always come from their friends? Do you think people gladly snitch on their friends? Do you believe the feds are the friends of the people they investigate? The dossier ultimately having been commissioned by two separate political opponents is irrelevant if the claims are corroborated by other independently gathered evidence, which is why several judges independently authorized and reauthorized the FISA warrants despite knowing that the information was intended to be used by political opponents.

    Now, you and I both know that if a non-white petty criminal were brought to trial, you would want all available evidence to be used against that person, even evidence that had not been obtained legally. Dismissing that evidence would be unacceptable to you and you'd sneer at the absurd notion of letting criminals get away on technicalities. In light of this it is especially pathetic of you to oppose the entirely legal gathering and use of damning evidence against someone collaborating with intelligence officers from a hostile foreign enemy of the US. We all know why you've suddenly decided to change your standards, but it's pathetic nevertheless.
    You are completely missing the problem here.

    A biased group of people acted against the political associates of the man running for president. They used information from a political hit piece paid for by the political opponents to substantiate a surveillance warrant. They then proceeded NOT to tell the FISA court that their maid piece of evidence was unsubstantiated and originated as a political oppo research.

    But hey lets also ignore the text messages with things like: "insurance policy" and "we'll stop him"

    And lets ignore the IG report that pointed to bad behavior by the Deputy Director of the FBI which led to his justified firing.

    There's a massive amount of inappropriate behavior, bias and political ill will in an election year. Compounding all of this we have a DOJ official who thinks Congress shouldn't be allowed to carry out their oversight responsibilities.

  28. #88
    New strategy. Collusion. So what?

    Hope is the denial of reality

  29. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski
    They used information from a political hit piece paid for by the political opponents to substantiate a surveillance warrant.
    Repeating this claim over and over is not going to make it true.

    Ignoring the facts such as the Steele dossier being taken seriously by the intelligence community and parts of it have already been verified is not going to make them go away.

    Desperately trying to present the Strzok texts as some big "gotcha" moment is not going to stop them from being a feeble basis for a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

    Calling anyone and everyone who tries to hold Republican crooks accountable "biased" and while continuing to uncritically repeat obvious and easily exposed lies from people David Nunes or venues like Fox News is not going to do much to hide your own stupid-ass agenda from anyone here.

    I sense from the amount of time you've put into this thread you think you're onto a big win to 'own the libs' or whatever the fuck you think it is important... but you're really not.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  30. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    New strategy. Collusion. So what?

    As was FORETOLD:

    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

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