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Thread: Refugees and asylum seekers don't all have aid

  1. #31
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    In other news, as women in detention centres launch a hunger strike to protest inhumane conditions, Tory MP and shameless liar asserts confidently--and falsely--that the people in these detention centres are all illegal immigrants held pending removal:

    https://twitter.com/ShoaibMKhan/stat...16255673139205

    Good breakdown of the various ways in which he lied. Disgusting.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  2. #32
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    According to that graphic 19% of appeals lodged are granted since the vast majority of appeals fail at the initial stage.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #33
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    The majority of applications are refused, the vast majority of refusals are appealed and two-fifths of those appeals are allowed.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #34
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  5. #35
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    It does not remotely say that two-fifths of those appeals are allowed.

    It says that 63% of appeals are dismissed or withdrawn. Of the 37% of appeals that are not dismissed or withdrawn there are a further 48% rejected. Given that in order for an appeal to be heard there has to be sufficient grounds to hear it, it is dishonest in the extreme to refer to the proportion of appeals heard as the proportion of appeals, let alone as the proportion of decision made. By that graphics figures 81% of appeals fail because they are dismissed, withdrawn or rejected once heard. That's not counting people who don't appeal either, or those who were granted it in the first place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #36
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It does not remotely say that two-fifths of those appeals are allowed.

    It says that 63% of appeals are dismissed or withdrawn. Of the 37% of appeals that are not dismissed or withdrawn there are a further 48% rejected.
    No. The 48% circle in the upper right corner represents a proportion of the total number of applications with a known outcome (the 100% circle at the left). On average, between 2013 and 2015, 37% of all applications for asylum or other protection were granted at initial decision and a further 15% of all applications ultimately granted on appeal, bringing the total to 52% of all applications with a known outcome.

    Following that, there is a link summarizing 2016 stats as they were known at the time, where it is found that 42%--approximately two-fifths--of appeals against an initial decision to refuse asylum were allowed.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #37
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    You're right, I misread the graphic.

    I'd be curious to know the reason behind appeals being successful. Is it because the original decision was flawed with the information available, or because further information is brought into the appeal that wasn't there for the original decision (possibly addressing the logic of why it was rejected originally).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #38
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You're right, I misread the graphic.

    I'd be curious to know the reason behind appeals being successful. Is it because the original decision was flawed with the information available, or because further information is brought into the appeal that wasn't there for the original decision (possibly addressing the logic of why it was rejected originally).
    You missed one: The original decision was flawed because they don't care to discover supportive information in the first place, taking pride in rejecting as many as possible.

    The massive amount of successful appeals points very obviously to a systemic problem. After all, getting rid of foreigners is Maybot's raison d'être.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  9. #39
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    You're right, I misread the graphic.

    I'd be curious to know the reason behind appeals being successful. Is it because the original decision was flawed with the information available, or because further information is brought into the appeal that wasn't there for the original decision (possibly addressing the logic of why it was rejected originally).
    HO is understaffed, and case-workers are overburdened, not only due to large number of applicants but due to chronically inadequate funding and . There is a great deal of pressure to process cases quickly, which may mean two or more in-depth interviews a day with next to no time for preparation, followed by hours of composing decisions that have to meet high legal standards. Many immigration lawyers have shared stories of clearly uninformed caseworkers conducting interviews with asylum seekers, where it is apparent that they either don't remember where the asylum seeker is from, or know anything about the situation in that country, let alone the particulars of the case before them. The extraordinarily high constant pressure ensures high rates of absenteeism as well as major problems with retention, leading to the HO's most vital work being left to newbies, many of whom have reported that their training was completely inadequate and that they've been left to learn on the job with little in the way of reliable mentoring.

    Under these circumstances, it's not surprising that a large number of interviews are poorly conducted, with vital information left either unsolicited or undocumented. The poor quality of decisions reflect these pressures as well as what whistle-blowers have described as an detestable culture of cynicism and borderline racism that drives staff to view refugees and other asylum seekers in a negative light and encourages them to reject as many applications as possible. In addition to informal pressures, you have the problem of official HO guidance being based on incorrect information, eg. in the case of the situation in Eritrea, where the HO continued, for months, to refer to a report that had been thoroughly discredited in order to justify denying asylum to Eritreans. People have been sent back to torture or worse. It is absolutely unconscionable, in this situation, to deny these desperate and vulnerable people adequate legal assistance.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  10. #40
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Truly, they've outdone themselves:

    https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...experts-reveal
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  11. #41
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Jesus Christ:

    In addition, people deported under the terrorism-associated paragraph will have that permanently marked on their passports, making it highly unlikely they will ever get a visa to visit or work anywhere else in the world.
    Talk about a scorched earth tactic. I wonder how Rand will defend this.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  12. #42
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    I have no intention of doing so, I want migration for highly skilled migrants from anywhere in the world made easier not harder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #43
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I have no intention of doing so, I want migration for highly skilled migrants from anywhere in the world made easier not harder.
    Well, you reap what you sow.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  14. #44
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    This is so extraordinarily shameful: https://www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/emi...rm=.hmddMl3EOB
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  15. #45
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    After publication a spokesperson for the MoJ said: “The FOI requested the final report and this was provided. Over 99% of applications for Crown Court legal aid are granted, and this hasn’t changed following the reforms. We will this year review all the changes made to legal aid in 2012 under LASPO – including criminal legal aid.”
    I wonder what the cause of the unchanged <1% being denied aid is?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #46
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter. Legal representation in court for such matter should be opt-out instead of opt-in. And "opt-out" only being a possibility if they can show that they have the legal background for representing themselves.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  17. #47
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Agreed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

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