Dread's doing his own research now!
Next problem, how many ROVs does BP own, and how many are contracted from 3rd parties; and how operating is not the same as owning.
Dread's doing his own research now!
Next problem, how many ROVs does BP own, and how many are contracted from 3rd parties; and how operating is not the same as owning.
Nice dodge for confusing James Cameron. But I'm not really interested in joining a circle jerk of BP bashing. It's really stating the obvious, I just have a problem with the over-the-top factual errors-cum-innuendo.
Didn't confuse him at all, I even linked to his "I know really, really, really, smart people" quote in this thread almost a month ago
None the less, he is involved heavily in deep sea filiming, (what he originally offered his services for), at depths far more volatile than 5,000 feet. Self quoting doesn't work to well on you, so I decided a more confrontation angle; you'd either fabricate more information to fill in the gaps, or discover what google was for.
but you didn't answer the next question. You could have been on a roll, instead you ducked
The Dodge Duck, sounds like a car from the 70s
Are you seriously bashing BP for not hiring/taking advantage of James Cameron? This is what I mean when I say your worldview is too heavily influenced by movies and video games.
So what the hell happened to Kevin Costner's sucking centrifuge machines? Since this big ass retrofit A Whale doesn't seem to work.....are there any other vessels or machines ready to go?
Why is the US so miserable at Disaster Planning and Preparedness? Seriously. Are we just too optimistic in general, too trusting of the wrong people, too arrogant, too stupid, or what?
I suspect too optimistic, but also it's tough to plan for some things like this. After all, a plan for something like this is useless if the right assets are in place. Those assets are expensive, so people won't invest in them (and governments won't require them) unless this kind of disaster seems very likely.
Remember Condi's line about how preventing September 11 was a "failure of imagination". Now it seems obvious, but it didn't always seem so obvious to everyone. Similarly, we've had an offshore oil industry for four decades without problems on this scale. Sure, in retrospect we can now sorta see how we got here but the big-picture potential for totally unstoppable gushers on this scale probably wasn't necessarily "imagined" by everyone involved in this.
The Dutch live below sea level. They didn't just plan for a 100 year flood like we did. Royal Dutch Shell wouldn't have the crap contingency plans Bp did, and their government agencies wouldn't have found them credible.
Maybe there are saner attitudes toward zomg teh disaster! when you're tiny? Sometimes I think the US is just so big it gets too big for its britches.
The difference is that having a large amount of your population living below sea level is a sort of obvious issue to plan for.
Having followed this on an off and on basis (no TV) I can only make a couple of uneducated opinions here.Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
1.) BP KNOWINGLY took shortcuts with mud/cement and blow-out containment features! That seems to lay this squarely on their asses!
2.) When the "people" supposedly elected two oil-men into the two highest offices in the land, and "our" representatives in Washington D.C. didn't try to contain their own, and the President's and the Vice President's, interest(s) in BIG oil, we the people got fucked! I don't care how you look at Obama or what your opinion(s) are of him, he did NOT cause this fuck-up! This rig/well, and others, were already in place long before he got into office! Wanna blame someone, blame the Bush/Cheney regime! That's when this rig/well, and others, were given the green-light go-ahead to drill!
3.) Hell no...a blow-out is never a planned event! FFS people, they happen! It's the nature of the oil patch, whether on land or on the ocean! No, they don't happen as often as they used to, and usually not any where close to this magnitude, but they do happen! Had BP not tried to cut costs by cutting corners on safety, and had the government not tried to cut costs by not doing the proper inspections in a timely manner, this disaster would probably not have happened. If there were procedures in place, by the company and mandated for all off-shore rigs, for clean-up, this mess wouldn't have spread like it did! This seems to place the blame on both BP and the Feds!
4.) Until BOTH parties quit pointing fingers and start working together, this mess is going to continue to grow out of control!
I don't have a problem with authority....I just don't like being told what to do!Remember, the toes you step on today may be attached to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow!RIP Fluffy! 01-07-09 I'm so sorry Fluffster! People who don't like cats were probably mice in an earlier life! My mind not only wanders, sometimes it leaves completely!The nice part about living in a small town: When you don't know what you're doing, someone else always does!
Atari bullshit refugee!!
So what's Louisiana's excuse for not planning well? Army Corps of Engineers, Mayor, Governor, senators, FEMA?
Oh, the Irony
The board game called "BP Offshore Oil Strike"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot...HMtZXJhYnBib2E
You have to wonder if this is how a young Tony Hayward got his start.
Recently a British game collector made a rather startling donation to the the House on the Hill toy museum in Stansted, Essex: a near mint-condition copy of “BP Offshore Oil Strike,” a rare “exciting board game for all the family” manufactured 35 years ago that promised players “the thrill of drilling.” Its cover features an oil rig amid stormy seas with an ominous black sky lurking overhead.
According to the UK Metro, the game allows “up to four would-be tycoons" to "compete at exploring for oil, building platforms and laying pipelines to their home countries.” And just like real-life offshore drilling, the game has its pitfalls in the form of “hazard cards,” one of which reads, “‘Blow-out! Rig damaged. Oil slick clean-up costs. Pay $1 million.”
Only one million dollars for a blowout resulting in an oil spill? Boy how times have changed!
And a large amount of deep sea drilling platforms is not an obvious issue to plan for?
I mean, it isn't like disastrous oil spills haven't happened before.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
Indeed, but they thought the technology was in place to prevent a monster. It now seems obvious now that a blowout preventer is bad technology (contains no redundancies, battery operated, etc). But frankly that's hindsight. Most of us didn't know the first thing about these issues two months ago.
Czernobyl et al. should have told us that sometimes our technology does go awry and we should have a plan for the Day After. I mean, you don't actually have to buy the equipment, but you should at least think about those "1 in a million" scenarios.
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
[BP] understate or overestimate what they are doing depending on the case.
Its not that a well rupture wasn't planned for. There was a plan, someone somewhere at least knew this was possible. The problem was that the plan was a complete wank job. Not something that can classify as "we could never have predicted this", BP's plan on file was complete garbage, Gulf based arctic marine life and dead scientists to boot.Just weeks before the spill, BP promised the feds it could skim and remove almost 500,000 barrels of oily water a day. Over 78 days of this crisis, that would amount to more than 38 million barrels. But so far, BP skimming has collected only 670,000 barrels. That's 37 million barrels short.
titanic bad, waterworld good
Probably, because one of my friends worked on a Dutch navy ship back then and they did relief work in Louisiana. They weren't allowed to go to New Orleans though, since it would be a bad image if the first relief there would come from a foreign country
I'm fairly sure that Shell is equally crap prepared if the local government there doesn't force them. If it's cheaper not to, and you don't HAVE to..
Then why do a lot of other countries require better preventive measures?
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Other countries also appear to actually check and confirm that industry regulations are being followed. They trust their government to actually govern.
The US has long entrusted everything to the corporations, even to regulate themselves (laissez-faire is best because the gummint is evil). Happened in financial industry, too. Wouldn't want to interfere with the markets, dontchaknow, it strangles growth and profit. No industry would act recklessly, it's in their best interest to operate prudently!
There are also disturbing things about Transocean's shenanigans, tax evasion, monkey business. And the number of old abandoned oil wells in our oceans that haven't been checked for leaks by any government agency....in decades. Big Oil and Big Business in bed together, government corruption makes a cozy 3-way cluster fuck.
So we get the worst of both worlds. We don't trust corporations OR our government. Go go USA #1!
BREAKING NEWS: The oil has finally stopped spewing!
Awaiting completion of the relief wells.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38256677...d_news-europe/LONDON — Oil giant BP said Thursday that it planned to start drilling off the coast of Libya within weeks despite calls from U.S. senators for a moratorium over the company's alleged links to the release of the Lockerbie bomber.
Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y., told NBC’s TODAY on Thursday that the U.K. government should investigate what role the company played in the decision to free Abdel Baset al-Megrahi in August 2009.
"We want a moratorium on the drilling [by BP] off Libya's coast. We believe BP should not be allowed to drill until we have resolution of this," she told the show.
Al-Megrahi, 57, is the only person convicted of carrying out the 1988 bombing of a U.S. airliner over Lockerbie, Scotland, that killed 270 people.
He was released on compassionate grounds by the Scottish government after doctors said he was likely just months from death. Nearly a year later, he remains alive.
BP signed a $900 million exploration agreement with Libya in May 2007, the same month that Britain and Libya signed an agreement that paved the way for al-Megrahi's release from a Scottish prison.
BP has admitted that it lobbied the British government over a prisoner transfer deal with Libya in late 2007, but denied playing any role in the actual decision to release al-Megrahi nearly two years later.
......etc.......
In a statement Thursday, BP re-iterated a previous admission about its role in the Libya-U.K. prisoner transfer deal.
"It is a matter of public record that in late 2007, BP told the U.K. government that we were concerned about the slow progress that was being made in concluding a Prisoner Transfer Agreement with Libya," BP said. "We were aware that this could have a negative impact on U.K. commercial interests, including the ratification by the Libyan government of BP's exploration agreement."
However, the firm insisted it was not involved in the decision to free the bomber.
"The decision to release al-Megrahi in August 2009 was taken by the Scottish government," the company said. "It is not for BP to comment on the decision of the Scottish government. BP was not involved in any such discussions with the U.K. government or the Scottish government about the release of al-Megrahi."
I'm glad the oil has stopped. I hope at the very minimum the Powers have learned something about emergency preparedness and next time it won't take 90 days.
The Rules
Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)
Especially since, at worse, BP knew of the fix procedure only 6 days after the spill started, but ignored it for junk shots and top kills.
Guess who is getting fucked this weekend!
Spoiler:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000..._WSJ_US_News_5LONDON—Scotland's government has rebuffed a U.S. Senate committee request to send two Scottish officials to testify next week at a hearing that will explore the country's release last summer of the convicted Lockerbie bomber.
Neither Justice Secretary Kenny MacAskill nor Scottish Prison Service health director Andrew Fraser will attend the hearing, a Scottish government spokesman said Thursday, noting that Scotland had already provided comprehensive written information to the Senate.
The Senate request comes amid renewed allegations that oil company BP PLC, may have influenced Scotland's decision to release the convicted bomber.
The U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee has invited BP Chief Executive Tony Hayward, BP Special Adviser Mark Allen and former U.K. Justice Secretary Jack Straw to testify. A spokesman for BP said Thursday that the company had received the invitations but had yet to respond. Mr. Straw couldn't be reached immediately for comment.
The Senate intends to explore Scotland's decision last summer to release former Libyan security agent Abdel Baset al-Megrahi, the only person convicted in the 1988 bombing of a Pan Am flight 103, which killed 270 people, including 189 Americans, when it exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland.
The inquiry will look at "allegations surrounding the decision to release al-Megrahi, and in particular, whether a $900 million oil exploration deal between BP and Libya directly or indirectly influenced the decision to release al-Megrahi," hearing chair Senator Robert Menendez (D., NJ) wrote in the invitations.
Scotland, the U.K. and BP have all said the oil company played no part in the decision to release Mr. Megrahi.
The complex circumstances surrounding Mr. Megrahi's release have revived questions about BP's connection to the affair. BP has said that in late 2007 it lobbied to speed up the passage of a Prisoner Transfer Agreement between the U.K. and Libya, which was ratified in 2009 and could have allowed Mr. Megrahi to return to his home country. Libya applied for Mr. Megrahi to be sent back under the agreement, but its application was rejected.
Instead, the Scottish government granted him a so-called "compassionate release," on the grounds that he was suffering from terminal prostate cancer and likely had no more than three months to live. More than 11 months after his release, Mr. Megrahi remains alive at his home in Libya.
Though Mr. Megrahi wasn't released under the transfer agreement, the Senate's attention has fallen upon the pact amid greater scrutiny of BP after the Gulf oil spill.
Mr. Allen, a former British security-services member with close ties to Labour Party officials, called Mr. Straw in October 2007 to discuss the slow progress on the transfer deal, a BP spokeswoman said last September. BP has said that it was concerned it feared a delay would hurt a $900 million oil deal it had signed with Libya in May 2007.
Separately, Mr. Straw rebuffed a request from the Scottish government to exclude Mr. Megrahi from the prisoner transfer agreement. "The wider negotiations with the Libyans are reaching a critical stage and in view of the overwhelming interests of the United Kingdom, I have agreed that in this instance the PTA should be in the standard form and not mention any individual," Mr. Shaw said in a 2007 letter to Mr. MacAskill.
You mean other measures which they thought would work? Just shameful. What sort of monster is only successful on their latest try?Especially since, at worse, BP knew of the fix procedure only 6 days after the spill started, but ignored it for junk shots and top kills.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
No, I wouldn't call it successful. Finally getting the lead in a football game of 40 quarters can't be called winning. Same as the Iraq war. Even if you finally pull shit together to stop the hemorrhaging, it was still a failure.
I didn't say there was any sort of "win" here. But they did finally manage to stop the flow, right? OG just made an accusation out of only managing to stop the flow with the last method tried. Which just makes no sense, the one that finally works is always going to be the last method since you're not going to keep trying to stop a flow that you've already stopped.
Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"
It was more of a point of trying methods that they admitted only had a ~60% chance of success, instead of the method that experienced deep sea drillers already use, and home owners with basic plumbing knowledge would understand.
Why were such decisions made? No one but the BP bean counters may know. Maybe it had to do with BP being worried about people discovering oil seeping out from the bedrock because the pipe may be damaged in other locations before the relief well could be finished. Maybe because planning for the cap would have required some sort of pressure measuring only days after BP claimed it was only losing 5,000 barrels a day, it wasn't till after the general consensus agreed that the flow was upwards of 70,000 barrels a day before BP relented to better measuring.
The way I understand the problem this is actually good news. The oil is driven out to sea where it is much less of a problem.Guess who is getting fucked this weekend!
Spoiler:
Congratulations America
Uh, are you sure that you interpreted the direction correctly?
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
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