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Thread: The March of progress

  1. #1
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Default The March of progress



    Rick Santorum might think all these kids need to do is learn CPR, and NRA fuckheads may fuck around with hourglasses or hurl vile insults, but the truth is that the world isn't really listening to them anymore. Not like it used to. Change will come. Slowly, but surely.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

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    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    1 gets you 5 that Trump has them replace the photos of his inauguration crowd with that one.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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    ======== Timbuk2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    1 gets you 5 that Trump has them replace the photos of his inauguration crowd with that one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  4. #4
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Time for change
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #5
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    It's getting closer now, the fear that we have held off for so long
    It's getting closer now to where we know there can be no return
    It's makes no sense to me, what has been set in motion here today
    It makes no sense anymore, was it too little, too late? Or too much too fast?

  6. #6
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Now now, that may actually be an attempt to be helpful. "We're not changing a damn thing no matter how much noise and visibility you make, so why don't you go do something that has the barest chance of actually saving a life"
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  7. #7
    Resiste et Mords! Steely Glint's Avatar
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    CPR's not terribly effective on gunshot wounds, so I'm told.
    It's getting closer now, the fear that we have held off for so long
    It's getting closer now to where we know there can be no return
    It's makes no sense to me, what has been set in motion here today
    It makes no sense anymore, was it too little, too late? Or too much too fast?

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    Marches like these tend to be silly. They tend not to be very specific on what they actually want in legislative action. They don't set specific targets that they will then deem as making the event and the effort behind it a 'success' or a 'failure' in their eyes.

    Do they want all guns banned? Raise the legal age to obtain? Ban certain types of weapons? What is 'too much' gun control? If gun laws are basically the same in 2 years did they fail? 5 years? The lack of specificity is annoying and makes the whole thing too nebulous to really be effective.

  9. #9
    Smooth Jazz Dispenser EmperorNorton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Marches like these tend to be silly. They tend not to be very specific on what they actually want in legislative action. They don't set specific targets that they will then deem as making the event and the effort behind it a 'success' or a 'failure' in their eyes.

    Do they want all guns banned? Raise the legal age to obtain? Ban certain types of weapons? What is 'too much' gun control? If gun laws are basically the same in 2 years did they fail? 5 years? The lack of specificity is annoying and makes the whole thing too nebulous to really be effective.
    Because doing anything but something to mitigate the problem is a much better option? Well that doesn't sound the least bit fucking silly at all.
    Last edited by EmperorNorton; 03-28-2018 at 02:13 AM.

  10. #10
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    CPR's not terribly effective on gunshot wounds, so I'm told.
    No, but think how much more effective it is than trying to get a Congress controlled by a bunch of Santorum-types to introduce gun control legislation.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #11
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Marches like these tend to be silly. They tend not to be very specific on what they actually want in legislative action. They don't set specific targets that they will then deem as making the event and the effort behind it a 'success' or a 'failure' in their eyes.

    Do they want all guns banned? Raise the legal age to obtain? Ban certain types of weapons? What is 'too much' gun control? If gun laws are basically the same in 2 years did they fail? 5 years? The lack of specificity is annoying and makes the whole thing too nebulous to really be effective.
    This is a representative democracy, Lewk. The public isn't supposed to be promulgating specific policies. That's their job, Congress'. Marches like this are to demonstrate to Congress that there is a large and vocal group in favor of action in a certain direction, a group which is motivated enough to undertake large organized activities (in other words, demonstrably willing and able to put in the sort of legwork which can also make a significant impact when applied to races for Congressional seats).
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

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    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmperorNorton View Post
    Because doing anything but something to mitigate the problem is a much better option? Well doesn't sound the least bit fucking silly at all.
    *peers closely*

    ...

    ...

    ... hey what the hell...!!
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #13
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Marches like these tend to be silly. They tend not to be very specific on what they actually want in legislative action. They don't set specific targets that they will then deem as making the event and the effort behind it a 'success' or a 'failure' in their eyes.

    Do they want all guns banned? Raise the legal age to obtain? Ban certain types of weapons? What is 'too much' gun control? If gun laws are basically the same in 2 years did they fail? 5 years? The lack of specificity is annoying and makes the whole thing too nebulous to really be effective.
    You are looking at it backwards. The event isn't designed to be a success or failure. It is designed to say that these people (voters too) are unhappy and change needs to happen. We don't judge voters.

    Those who can and should be judged are the politicians. They can and should be judged based upon the success or failure of the actions they do or don't take. Incidentally it's an election year.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #14
    Ya'll are misunderstanding him. He considers them annoying, therefore irrelevant. Remember, this is the fool who advocates for running over protesters who enter the roadway.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    This is a representative democracy, Lewk. The public isn't supposed to be promulgating specific policies. That's their job, Congress'. Marches like this are to demonstrate to Congress that there is a large and vocal group in favor of action in a certain direction, a group which is motivated enough to undertake large organized activities (in other words, demonstrably willing and able to put in the sort of legwork which can also make a significant impact when applied to races for Congressional seats).
    How short sighted. Goals for any organization should be specific and realistic. Should a politician take from the march that we should ban all guns? Ban some guns? Ban certain types of ammunition? What specifically are all the marchers agreeing with?

    This is all about participation. "I did something, I went to a march. It will change absolutely nothing but I did something look at me!"

  16. #16
    Senior Member RandBlade's Avatar
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    A politician should take from the march that action on gun laws needs to happen now. How they propose to do that is up to the politicians - not the marchers - and the politicians can then be judged or not at the ballot box.

    Why you propose to judge voters rather than the politicians is beyond me. What do you propose to do if voters are deemed to have failed or succeeded?

    Whether the march changes anything or not is again not up to the marchers. They are there to start something, to signify their anger. If sufficient voters agree with them then ultimately the politicians will act. If the anti-gun lobby becomes a much bigger voter pool than the pro-gun lobby then change could happen dramatically quickly. That will never happen without people organising and taking a stand.

    Laws have been shaped by lobbyists in the form of the NRA or MADD - there's no reason these marchers can't be just as successful in the long run, unless they decide not to bother trying.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #17
    All Worship Ragnarök Loki's Avatar
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    I don't recall you criticizing tea party protests, Lewk.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  18. #18
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    How short sighted. Goals for any organization should be specific and realistic. Should a politician take from the march that we should ban all guns? Ban some guns? Ban certain types of ammunition? What specifically are all the marchers agreeing with?

    This is all about participation. "I did something, I went to a march. It will change absolutely nothing but I did something look at me!"
    You're confusing this with the Occupy Wall Street protests, which never really grew into organized political action (except maybe the CFPB).

    What's different this time is that students are politically active, demanding legislators change laws, and are registering to vote in an election year. This time their participation might well turn into a new voting bloc, even if it takes a few more years for the 12 yr olds to be eligible to vote. That's not short-sighted at all.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't recall you criticizing tea party protests, Lewk.
    ding ding ding. Hypocrisy wins again.

    but wait, there's more!
    Lewk has this selective approach that allows his handicapped mind to write off pretty much everyone he doesn't agree with.
    Small highly focused localized groups? They must be emotional, irrelevant, likely hoodlums.
    Large nationwide movement? They don't agree on every fine point, irrelevant, low effort do nothings.

    The mental gymnastics with this idiot get worse by the year.
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  20. #20
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    OG, while I agree with your assessment about Lewk, I hope you don't fall into the trap of demonizing whole groups of people as the main way of expressing your views. That's just not gonna work.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    I don't recall you criticizing tea party protests, Lewk.
    Actually many of the Tea Party protests were specific. They began as opposition to Obama's stimulus package and then later Obama care. Of course like many groups there were splinters that did their own thing. My respect for the Tea Party had to do with their observance of local laws, the pride they had in making sure they picked up after themselves etc. A far cry from idiots blocking traffic. (And yes as I stated before I'm sure some splinter groups did their own thing but by and large respect for the people around them were hallmarks of the Tea Part protests).

  22. #22
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    The Tea Party wanted to pay down the national debt by paying less to social services like SS/Medicare/Medicaid, while paying more to military funding. They were fiscal and military hawks, cloaked as libertarians, that took advantage of the Republican Party Identity Crisis, along with the Faith and Freedom Caucus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    The Tea Party wanted to pay down the national debt by paying less to social services like SS/Medicare/Medicaid, while paying more to military funding. They were fiscal and military hawks, cloaked as libertarians, that took advantage of the Republican Party Identity Crisis, along with the Faith and Freedom Caucus.
    While obvious overlap exists but the Tea Party type is typically on the opposite end of the Republican spectrum as the social conservatives.

  24. #24
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    uh huh, whatever you think Lewk, that lets you continue to believe in the Republican Party

  25. #25
    SEÑOR Member Aimless's Avatar
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    Their ultimate goal is to reduce gun violence, school shootings in particular. Their strategy involves organizing and sustaining massive popular support that'll help them reduce the NRA's influence on American politics. They're doing this by both making their opposition to the NRA's policies very clear (giving politicians reason to believe they don't have to shill for the NRA to win) and by organizing voters--especially teens who'll be eligible to vote on the upcoming elections--in order to vote out of office those politicians who've received funding and endorsements from the NRA. The marches and coverage represent one successful step. If they vote politicians who've been rated A by the NRA out of office, or force incumbents to take positions the NRA opposes, that'd be another success. Specific policy positions include stricter background checks, closing loopholes, bans on certain kinds of firearms etc. An interesting development is that Rubio recently expressed support for letting the CDC study firearms-related injuries and deaths again. Getting that ban lifted would also represent success. Now, would you like to whine some more or are you ready to take off the bow-tie?
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  26. #26
    Local talking head LittleFuzzy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    How short sighted. Goals for any organization should be specific and realistic.
    But this ISN'T an organization Lewk, it was a protest march.

    Should a politician take from the march that we should ban all guns? Ban some guns? Ban certain types of ammunition?
    Rule number one. Don't negotiate against yourself. They want gun control to end this mass shooting terror. If that's not enough for the politicians to work with then the politicians need to come up with some proposals and see how those fare.

    What specifically are all the marchers agreeing with?
    It was a massive march. I guarantee there's no specific policy ALL the marchers would agree on.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  27. #27
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    One thing is evident: "thoughts and prayers" aren't enough.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Their ultimate goal is to reduce gun violence, school shootings in particular. Their strategy involves organizing and sustaining massive popular support that'll help them reduce the NRA's influence on American politics. They're doing this by both making their opposition to the NRA's policies very clear (giving politicians reason to believe they don't have to shill for the NRA to win) and by organizing voters--especially teens who'll be eligible to vote on the upcoming elections--in order to vote out of office those politicians who've received funding and endorsements from the NRA. The marches and coverage represent one successful step. If they vote politicians who've been rated A by the NRA out of office, or force incumbents to take positions the NRA opposes, that'd be another success. Specific policy positions include stricter background checks, closing loopholes, bans on certain kinds of firearms etc. An interesting development is that Rubio recently expressed support for letting the CDC study firearms-related injuries and deaths again. Getting that ban lifted would also represent success. Now, would you like to whine some more or are you ready to take off the bow-tie?
    Ironically when anti-gun legislation and anti-gun movements gain traction, more guns are sold. Trump's electoral win actually probably wasn't a great thing for gun makers.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.84a31f802d68

    So if these guys do manage to do things like push the envelope on guns we'll actually see more guns in circulation.

  29. #29
    Senior Member GGT's Avatar
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    Remington has filed for bankruptcy protections. Boo hoo

  30. #30
    Administrator Dreadnaught's Avatar
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    At least some people are being transparent that the goal is to repeal the second amendment. Hillary Clinton ran on repealing the first amendment, so pretty soon we'll all be fighting about changing the constitution. Which will be super constructive.

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