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Thread: Sweden

  1. #1

    Default Sweden

    I don't know much about Swedish politics so hopefully Aimless can educate us but it seems like the Swedish Democrats in at least one poll now have taken the lead there. They don't sound like a very pleasant party at all from what I've read, should that be concerning? That more than a quarter of Swedish voters seem to now be backing that party seems concerning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #2
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    Seems to me that 52% of Brits think they have a right to go to war over not getting full membership rights in the EU while not being a member is a much bigger problem.
    Congratulations America

  3. #3
    I think you'll find air travel is not an EU right and that only countries under war or other military sanctions have no fly zones. Please name a comparable non EU nation that has that you'd contrast us with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #4
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I think you'll find air travel is not an EU right and that only countries under war or other military sanctions have no fly zones. Please name a comparable non EU nation that has that you'd contrast us with.
    You are really working on making yourself look stupid, huh?

    https://www.1001crash.com/index-page...oire-lg-2.html

    https://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes...-ban/search_en
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I think you'll find air travel is not an EU right and that only countries under war or other military sanctions have no fly zones. Please name a comparable non EU nation that has that you'd contrast us with.
    Yeah, and you go fuck yourself a bit more while you're at it.
    Congratulations America

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    What has that got to do with no fly zones? A bunch of third world airlines with safety concerns isn't what we are talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    What has that got to do with no fly zones? A bunch of third world airlines with safety concerns isn't what we are talking about.
    Those are airlines who are forbidden from even entering EU and US airspace. You know: A no fly zone. You asked which country not at war has no fly zones. I just gave you 29 of them.

    At least in the case of the EU ban, this is due to safety concerns. Which has to do with lacking certifications.

    You know, the same certifications your country will lack next March. Which will land your country's airlines straight on the same list.
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    Even your travel insurance would be void if you would board a non-certified plane/airline.
    Congratulations America

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Those are airlines who are forbidden from even entering EU and US airspace. You know: A no fly zone. You asked which country not at war has no fly zones. I just gave you 29 of them.

    At least in the case of the EU ban, this is due to safety concerns. Which has to do with lacking certifications.

    You know, the same certifications your country will lack next March. Which will land your country's airlines straight on the same list.
    Except that certifications aren't held by countries they're held by companies - and Ireland's Aer Lingus and Britain's British Airways are the same company. Along with Spain's Iberia they are all IAG.

    So is Varadkar going to let British Airways fly? Or shut down Aer Lingus?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Except that certifications aren't held by countries they're held by companies - and Ireland's Aer Lingus and Britain's British Airways are the same company. Along with Spain's Iberia they are all IAG.

    So is Varadkar going to let British Airways fly? Or shut down Aer Lingus?
    Jesus Christ. The certification for a company is done by the country / supernational entity said company resides in. If the company seat is within the UK come March then your companies will automatically lose their certifications because the UK at that time will not have a CAA capable of providing internationally accredited certifications.

    And you also still won't have the rights to fly over foreign countries. That's an additional matter you have to solve.
    When the stars threw down their spears
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  11. #11
    In a no deal scenario the best you can hope for wrt certification is a last-minute agreement to regard issued certificates as valid until they lapse, giving companies who haven't already prepared for this scenario a few more months to find another solution.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  12. #12
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    New planes would have to be grounded, though.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    In a no deal scenario the best you can hope for wrt certification is a last-minute agreement to regard issued certificates as valid until they lapse, giving companies who haven't already prepared for this scenario a few more months to find another solution.
    and to make such a deal with an opponent who you just stiffed to the tune of €39bn.
    Congratulations America

  14. #14
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    Any bets on what the US will expect in the way of gifts to make that possible?
    When the stars threw down their spears
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    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    and to make such a deal with an opponent who you just stiffed to the tune of €39bn.
    Alternatively you have €39bn reasons to stop acting like arseholes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #16
    "You better do what I want or I'll chop off my own hand!"
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  17. #17
    That's precisely how we need to negotiate yes. Have you ever tried negotiating with someone you think might be crazy?

    Incidentally under your logic even voting to leave the EU was crazy and no rational actor would do it, but we did. You need to not rule out the idea that what you think is illogical will happen again because by definition its already happened once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    even voting to leave the EU was crazy and no rational actor would do it, but we did.
    Selective quoting for truth.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That's precisely how we need to negotiate yes. Have you ever tried negotiating with someone you think might be crazy?
    The Masterminds of Trade Deals at work, people.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    That's precisely how we need to negotiate yes. Have you ever tried negotiating with someone you think might be crazy?

    Incidentally under your logic even voting to leave the EU was crazy and no rational actor would do it, but we did. You need to not rule out the idea that what you think is illogical will happen again because by definition its already happened once.
    That is not a compelling argument for appeasing the insane and playing along with their delusions.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  22. #22
    Their most surprising views seem to be environmental. Like why is economics the one convention they won't buck?

  23. #23
    Sweden, explain yourself.

    Hope is the denial of reality

  24. #24
    The violence of foreigners is worse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Sweden, explain yourself.

    Apparently this was sparked by the police seizing a major shipment of hard drugs just a few days prior to the video.

    My vote is entirely undecided so I spent a couple of hours yesterday harassing reps of the Social Democrats, the Liberals, the Sweden Democrats and the Environmental Party (Greens). I'm more optimistic than I have ever been. I fully expect SD to make significant gains this election, but six of the other seven parties currently in parliament have explicitly stated that they won't collaborate with SD, and five of those have explicitly stated that they will definitely collaborate with parties in the opposing bloc in order to deny SD undue influence. Some parties may deviate from this at the county and municipal levels, which is only to be expected. I wrote a summary of their answers to those questions that are most important to me and that are difficult to find clear answers to in their party platforms. It was also a good opportunity to engage in dialogue.

    At the end of this adventure, I was left with a strong impression that the SD reps I encountered yesterday weren't motivated by outright racism so much as they were driven by egocentrism & a strong preference for simple answers based on difficulties with seeing different perspectives, reasoning about challenges, unintended consequences etc. They were very enthusiastic about their ideas, which were frequently very concrete, but they had clearly not given those ideas much thought. The pattern was typically something like, "This is my problem. We must remove the problem. Everything will be all right then." They were open to discussion but, attempts to explore their answers in greater detail and in a broader perspective were often not fruitful, other than in leading them to acknowledge some of the things they hadn't considered. We've already seen that SD has not been able to rise to the challenge of governance at the county and municipal levels due to these characteristics, and I don't believe they are much more competent at the national level, no matter how much influence they have.

    I have two more parties left to harrass, and I'm looking forward to it. I must say I was very positively surprised by the Greens. Until yesterday, I would've rated my likelihood of voting for them as being very low, but they have the advantage of actually having had substantial success in shaping policy--disproportionate influence, in some cases--and their signature policies have been successful. The proof is in the political pudding.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  26. #26
    Simple solutions for complex problems drives most Trumpists, too. It just so happens that this type of thinking also leads to racism.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #27
    Ditto Corbynites.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Simple solutions for complex problems drives most Trumpists, too. It just so happens that this type of thinking also leads to racism.

    If nothing else it certainly amplifies natural tendencies toward racism, and is easily coopted by racists. I'm finding the notion of parochial altruism increasingly compelling as well.

    I was relieved that these people weren't as overtly batshit as many Trumpists appear to be. Several were brown immigrants, and very approachable, although the others didn't give them much space and they themselves did not engage w/ people spontaneously. It was unclear just what made those particular individuals choose to stand with SD. They didn't betray any of the animosity I usually encounter from immigrants who are supportive of SD's policies. As expected they felt that immigration had gotten "out of hand" and wanted a more restrictive policy, apparently in the belief that this would favour those who had moved to Sweden decades ago and been left behind by society. There was some Islamophobia but unfortunately they became reluctant to elaborate on their thoughts once it emerged that I have a Muslim name. Here, too, I encountered a strong preference for simplistic analysis & solutions and total disregard for complexity. The similarities w/ Brexit discussions was striking.
    Last edited by Aimless; 08-17-2018 at 01:31 PM.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  29. #29
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Ditto Corbynites.
    Ditto Brexiteers, by the way. With a side of Ostrichism.
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

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