New study links spanking with increased aggression in kiddy-winks

[Khendraja'aro]

He wasn't speculating; he was making concrete claims. And cry me a river. The only reasons you're defending him is because A) you constantly use the same tactics, and B) you agree with his conclusions.

Similar school forms arriving at similar results is a claim that's not sustainable? Especially when said school forms are more suited to the brain's way of learning than the usual form of teaching over here in Germany?

Aha.

[Aimless]

He wasn't speculating; he was making concrete claims. And cry me a river. The only reasons you're defending him is because A) you constantly use the same tactics, and B) you agree with his conclusions.

All I remember is that he described how one school did things and inferred various things from the case of that single school and from its results. I admit that I do often let myself be inspired by interesting cases when I want to discuss something. That's just one way to have a discussion. It's a better way than your usual method of A) being stupid, or B) Using shoddy BBC-articles together with deception as proof if you're going to knock Khen for something like that then why aren't you attacking yourself for your long history of misrepresentation, deception, manipulation and outright douchery?

And, let's face it. The reason you're mad at me now is because you know I'm right. You have a hard time with informal discussions, or with most situations that involve interacting with human beings. You have a hard time relinquishing anything in any situation that even remotely resembles a conflict. You should deal with your insecurity and your touchiness instead of letting it sour every single encounter you have with another person.

But that's something that will take you a very long time and a lot of effort. I suggest you start with something that is far more pressing and far simpler to achieve, which is to read what I actually posted just a short while ago:

Re. the OP, I don't think it says what some of us wanted it to say. The discussion in the first two pages was very good and explained why we should be cautious in drawing conclusions from this study

I also think it's a strange approach to have to the issue of spanking. As I see it, spanking is a form of violence. When it's used on non-consenting individuals--adults or children--then the guiding question should not be, "Will this increase aggression?" or "Will this cause cancer?" The question should be, "Will this be of significant benefit to the person being spanked?"

And, upon asking that question, we should pause for a moment and think, "Uh-oh. Tricky territory."

Now stop being a dumbass.

[Loki]

I forgot that we should all be worshiping your wisdom instead of actually trying to scientifically test relevant claims. In this instance, the study on spanking showed that if you spanked your child two times or a fewer in a month, there's no effect on aggression. Considering that the "frequent spanking" category was dominated by people spanking their children far more than twice a month, we can probably conclude that spanking causes aggression only when it's done very frequently, and even then, the effect isn't very dramatic. But you're right, Minx. We should trust your judgment, because you, after all, know better than the people who carried out these peer-reviewed studies.

[Aimless]

I forgot that we should all be worshiping your wisdom instead of actually trying to scientifically test relevant claims. In this instance, the study on spanking showed that if you spanked your child two times or a fewer in a month, there's no effect on aggression. Considering that the "frequent spanking" category was dominated by people spanking their children far more than twice a month, we can probably conclude that spanking causes aggression only when it's done very frequently, and even then, the effect isn't very dramatic. But you're right, Minx. We should trust your judgment, because you, after all, know better than the people who carried out these peer-reviewed studies.

Re. the OP, I don't think it says what some of us wanted it to say. The discussion in the first two pages was very good and explained why we should be cautious in drawing conclusions from this study

I also think it's a strange approach to have to the issue of spanking. As I see it, spanking is a form of violence. When it's used on non-consenting individuals--adults or children--then the guiding question should not be, "Will this increase aggression?" or "Will this cause cancer?" The question should be, "Will this be of significant benefit to the person being spanked?"

And, upon asking that question, we should pause for a moment and think, "Uh-oh. Tricky territory."

Now stop being a dumbass.

[Loki]

You attack people for less when you disagree with them, Mr. Hypocrite. And of course resorting to insults is better than calling out a liar, right? Pathetic.

[Aimless]

All I'm saying is that several of us who are against spanking may have inappropriately interpreted the results of the study as evidence that spanking causes aggressive behaviour, and also that the discussion in the first half of this thread put forth good reasons for being more cautious in our interpretation of those results. In the event that you're going through some sort of psychiatric episode or drug-induced meltdown or a really bad breakup or something, that basically means that I agree with most of what you've said in the first part of this thread. I wrote it in English, but maybe you read it in Loki, ie. that language in which anything said by a person whom you dislike is incorrect.

As for insults, well, calling you out for being a liar has been done to death

[Loki]

Sorry Minx, but your posts in the last year have destroyed what ever moral authority you ever had. Stop pretending to be a neutral bystander when all you do nowadays is drive-through trolling.

[Aimless]

Moral authority? Ffs I'm just some guy, admittedly one more concerned with being nice to nice people than are most of you, but hardly a moral authority Nor am I claiming to be a neutral bystander. Dude, now you're just being strange it's creeping me out a little.

[Khendraja'aro]

Moral authority? Ffs I'm just some guy, admittedly one more concerned with being nice to nice people than are most of you, but hardly a moral authority Nor am I claiming to be a neutral bystander. Dude, now you're just being strange it's creeping me out a little.

Loki obviously thinks of your "past you" as the equivalent to Mahatma Ghandi or Jesus. You should be proud!

[CitizenCain]

Oh, and by the way, he did extrapolate from a sample size of 1:

No, technically, he posited based on a sample size of however many columns there are in the periodic table... 8 (not including the weird metal groups)... and like 16 or so if you do. So, Loki's fucktastic chemistry example - still more solid than your "let's create a trend line from one school" approach to research. God, the German education system must be in worse shape than ours if you managed to pull an undergrad degree out of it.

Now stop being a dumbass.

If you promise to stop being a sanctimonious dumbass, I'll see what I can do about getting Loki to not be a normal dumbass.

[Loki]

Moral authority? Ffs I'm just some guy, admittedly one more concerned with being nice to nice people than are most of you, but hardly a moral authority Nor am I claiming to be a neutral bystander. Dude, now you're just being strange it's creeping me out a little.

Wait, you "try to be nice to people" by appearing out of nowhere, insulting them, and then disappearing?

[Khendraja'aro]

No, technically, he posited based on a sample size of however many columns there are in the periodic table... 8 (not including the weird metal groups)... and like 16 or so if you do. So, Loki's fucktastic chemistry example - still more solid than your "let's create a trend line from one school" approach to research. God, the German education system must be in worse shape than ours if you managed to pull an undergrad degree out of it.

Uh, what? He specifically stated LiCl versus NaCl. That's not the "whole periodic table" last time I looked. Besides, there's a reason why the groups in the periodic table are ordered thusly.

And I compared this school (consisting some thousand pupils) to the Finnish school system and noticed some similarities in both the teaching methods and their respective results.

And that is an invalid comparison? Do I suddenly have to do a full-fledged study for the whole world in order to be allowed to say: "Gee, maybe the teaching methods do have something to do with the results after all"?

Gawd, people, I did NOT propose a new theory worthy of a Nobel prize.

[Aimless]

Wait, you "try to be nice to people" by appearing out of nowhere, insulting them, and then disappearing?

Er, please note that I spoke only of trying to be nice to nice people

[CitizenCain]

Wait, you "try to be nice to people" by appearing out of nowhere, insulting them, and then disappearing?

Yes.

Don't you know that it's "nice" of the Sultan of Sanctimony to grace us with his august presence and boundless wisdom at all? And, you being the ungrateful bitch that you are, focus on the fact that he's insulting and self-righteous when dealing with us lowly peons, as if that wasn't a minuscule price to pay for the joys of his company and depths of his enlightenment!

Uh, what? He specifically stated LiCl versus NaCl. That's not the "whole periodic table" last time I looked. Besides, there's a reason why the groups in the periodic table are ordered thusly.

Right, and that's what he was basing his assumption on/"extrapolating from," duh. That elements in the same group are similar... based on the fact that this holds true for all 16 (? or so) groups.

And I compared this school (consisting some thousand pupils) to the Finnish school system and noticed some similarities in both the teaching methods and their respective results.

Yes, you extrapolated from a single data point and are not getting a severe case of PMS over the fact that your bullshit is being called out for what it is. You know, if you had half a brain you'd just admit that indeed, you can't demonstrate shit with a single data point, and the whole issue would have been dropped ages ago. But no, you want to keep insisting you can extrapolate from a single school, so... yeah, have fun.

[Khendraja'aro]

So, let me see: Do you guys actually know anything about psychology, paedagogics or neuropsychology?

Because otherwise we have two people here who're talking about numbers without having the faintest clue about the mechanics which yield those numbers.

Let me explain: I know about classroom teaching, theories of didactics, paedagogics and psychology and have stood before a class room. So I see a country and a school which work close along those theories, and which yield good results.

Thus, what we actually have here is not an extrapolation from a single data point - but rather a data point which snugly fits into existing theories. I may have not made that clear enough. From my point of view, with my prior knowledge, my statements are anything but "bullshit".

And it's 18 groups - but just because they're in the same group doesn't mean that they must be similar. Just look at group 15. You have a gas (Nitrogen), a non-metal (Phosphor), two half-metals (Arsen & Antimony) and a radioactive metal (Bismut)

[CitizenCain]

Arguing from credentials is fun, innit?

Still won't make anyone believe you can pull a trend line out of a single data point, though.

[Loki]

So now Khen admits to only looking at cases which support his preexisting views and ignoring the rest. Lovely. You know, Khen, next time you try to claim expertise on something, don't do it after proving total and utter ignorance of the subject.

[CitizenCain]

You know, Khen, next time you try to claim expertise on something, don't do it after proving total and utter ignorance of the subject.

Stop helping him, you selfish prick. It's so easy this way, which appeals to my lazy nature.

[Khendraja'aro]

You did not exactly understand what I was saying, hmmh? Maybe you should read it again.

In short: Existing theories. Data point. Fits those theories. You are arguing because you don't know the theories. No "extrapolation" at all.

Would you argue with Nessus if she told you that a certain phenomenon fits nicely into some Physics theories you don't know anything about?

So now Khen admits to only looking at cases which support his preexisting views and ignoring the rest. Lovely. You know, Khen, next time you try to claim expertise on something, don't do it after proving total and utter ignorance of the subject.

Where did I say that and (bonus question) which cases don't support my preexisting views? If you know what you're talking about then you should have no problem finding something.

[CitizenCain]

The data point I have about you being a know-nothing blow-hard also fits well into existing theories. Therefore, I'm not over reaching or extrapolating when I say you're ALWAYS full of shit and never know anything.

[Khendraja'aro]

And, y'see, that's the general problem of paedagogics - some people think that just because they went to school once that they know everything and anything about how teaching children works.

Do you have anything tangible instead of your boring ad-hominems?

[Loki]

In short: Existing theories. Data point. Fits those theories. You are arguing because you don't know the theories. No "extrapolation" at all.

Pray tell if those theories are as well supported as your own.

Would you argue with Nessus if she told you that a certain phenomenon fits nicely into some Physics theories you don't know anything about?

She's too smart to use that data point as proof for those theories.

[Khendraja'aro]

Are you still trying for that angle? I never said that my deliberations are some kind of proof. Get that in your head. Jesus, man. Could you maybe, once in a while, actually read what I write instead of just glancing at the text, searching for some new way to attack me?

You're barely coherent in your nerd-rage in order to prove that some guy on the internet is wrong. I mean, all you're doing is attack this single post of mine again and again and again and again. Maybe I should write some kind of ignore function into GreaseMonkey - you're obviously an idiot since you can't let something lie but have to drag an issue from another thread here and attack me once again. You're getting just as boring as Cain - I don't see anything resembling an actual argument here instead of simple trolling.

If you're talking to your friends in an argument the way you do here I don't imagine you have too many of them.

[Loki]

Weren't you the guy who talked about being constantly misunderstanding you and thinking you're overly hostile?

Not that the above (or your entire post) is relevant. I'd hate to be a student of some as self-righteous, ignorant, and as unwilling to admit to mistakes as you.

Er, please note that I spoke only of trying to be nice to nice people

Please come back when you're capable of contributing something other than insults to this forum. You don't even have the excuse of alcohol to explain your trolling and incoherence over the last year.

[Aimless]

Are you still trying for that angle? I never said that my deliberations are some kind of proof. Get that in your head. Jesus, man. Could you maybe, once in a while, actually read what I write instead of just glancing at the text, searching for some new way to attack me?

Not until you start stroking his ego on IRC or something. It's in the fine print.

You know, and I know, and even Loki knows, that this entire exchange is about Loki being incapable of admitting or correcting the mistakes he so frequently makes in almost every single discussion. Mistakes such as being a jerk more concerned with scoring points than with anything else, or interpreting everyone else as being both hostile and retarded

Maybe we should just ignore him until he shows an interest in discussion rather than in baiting people

EDIT2: Although, come to think of it, now I find myself more interested in baiting than in anything else, so I'll just stop that now

EDIT: He teaches uni students or something, I'm guessing as a requirement for getting his Ph D., so he probably has little formal education in teaching kids. Don't hold it against him

[Khendraja'aro]

EDIT: He teaches uni students or something, I'm guessing as a requirement for getting his Ph D., so he probably has little formal education in teaching kids. Don't hold it against him

"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lamp-posts... for support rather than illumination."
-Andrew Lang (1844-1912)