New study links spanking with increased aggression in kiddy-winks

[Loki]

You can't be that backward. Stats don't prove anything. You have to have a theory first, then derive hypotheses from it, test those hypotheses, derive implications from that, and test those implications. Is your field so freaking backward that you think either looking at one school that "works" or comparing countries, which are different in numerous ways other than the ones being measured, is evidence?

[CitizenCain]

That's what I asked confirmation for. Because I don't know that this is "well established" even though I attended some lectures and seminars on Paedagogical Psychology (which included some on Agression, Mobbing, and such).

Oh, well, there's your problem. You need to attend the more interesting lectures on torture and "brainwashing" (behavioral control/manipulation) and mind "deprogramming," else you'll never learn these interesting little things about what happens when you repeatedly stretch a human to the very edge of his/her limits. How else do you expect to be able to mold your children into completely subservient thralls?

[Khendraja'aro]

You can't be that backward. Stats don't prove anything. You have to have a theory first, then derive hypotheses from it, test those hypotheses, derive implications from that, and test those implications. Is your field so freaking backward that you think either looking at one school that "works" or comparing countries, which are different in numerous ways other than the ones being measured, is evidence?

By that logic, any and all stats on the financial structure of a country are essentially meaningless since they all differ in their political and fiscal systems, not to mention culturally and geographically.

Which country is poorer than the other? Which produces more than the other? Wheeeee, suddenly we can't tell since "stats don't prove anything". Your own words.

You just buried your own field of science. Congratulations

Oh, well, there's your problem. You need to attend the more interesting lectures on torture and "brainwashing" (behavioral control/manipulation) and mind "deprogramming," else you'll never learn these interesting little things about what happens when you repeatedly stretch a human to the very edge of his/her limits. How else do you expect to be able to mold your children into completely subservient thralls?

Still waiting on your proof that your theory is well established. That's all I'm asking here.

[CitizenCain]

Still waiting on your proof that your theory is well established. That's all I'm asking here.

Here ya go. Enjoy!

And I even went to the effort of finding you the German-language version, so you better be appreciative, or I'm not going to bother providing sources for you in the future.

[Loki]

By that logic, any and all stats on the financial structure of a country are essentially meaningless since they all differ in their political and fiscal systems, not to mention culturally and geographically.

Which country is poorer than the other? Which produces more than the other? Wheeeee, suddenly we can't tell since "stats don't prove anything". Your own words.

You just buried your own field of science. Congratulations

Your knowledge of statistics and science is worse than Alpha's. Whether country A is richer or poorer than country B is not a theoretical question; it's an empirical one. A theoretical question would be "what causes a country to become richer?" And you would answer that question not by simply comparing the traits of rich countries to the traits of poor ones, but by looking at the effects of every individual trait, while controlling for all the other ones. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea about this area, and I'm not using hyperbole here.

[Khendraja'aro]

Here ya go. Enjoy!

And I even went to the effort of finding you the German-language version, so you better be appreciative, or I'm not going to bother providing sources for you in the future.

Excellent. So it's not established and you know shit.

Y'know, that's your problem. I was actually interested in the background behind your theory and wanted to know more about it, to know more about the psychology involved, its mechanisms and so on.

And you just proved to me that your tales are nothing but hot air. Congratulations. You're nothing but a dumb old misanthrope who likes to pose as an all knowing sage, but in fact is nothing but a monkey flinging his poo around at whatever he likes.

Nice one

Your knowledge of statistics and science is worse than Alpha's. Whether country A is richer or poorer than country B is not a theoretical question; it's an empirical one. A theoretical question would be "what causes a country to become richer?" And you would answer that question not by simply comparing the traits of rich countries to the traits of poor ones, but by looking at the effects of every individual trait, while controlling for all the other ones. Seriously, you have absolutely no idea about this area, and I'm not using hyperbole here.

So, country A does better than country B on a standardized test is a valid statement after all? Thanks.

And one might conclude that the reason why country A does WAY better than country B may be grounded in the way its schools are organized is also a valid statement? Yes, I know, Loki, Immigrants, social structure, yadda, yadda, the fact still remains that the difference is a huge one.

And my original statement, if I remember correctly was: "A school in my district adopted a similar teaching culture to the finnish model and does way better than the rest. I don't think that's a coincidence." Especially when said school does not handpick its pupils and takes children from all social levels.

Oh well. I'm not quite sure what you're thinking, Loki, but it ain't straight thinking. You are basically arguing that things can't be because they must not be.

I mean, you're not even explaining why psychology and paedagogic theories are wrong. You're wringing your hands and conjure obscure facts from thin air, based on some hodge-podge number and a "Because I say so". Please. Spare me.

[CitizenCain]

Excellent. So it's not established and you know shit.

Y'know, that's your problem. I was actually interested in the background behind your theory and wanted to know more about it, to know more about the psychology involved, its mechanisms and so on.

And you just proved to me that your tales are nothing but hot air. Congratulations. You're nothing but a dumb old misanthrope who likes to pose as an all knowing sage, but in fact is nothing but a monkey flinging his poo around at whatever he likes.

Nice one

That's a pretty shitty attempt to troll information out of me, you know.

I really don't give a shit what you think, so I'm not going to be motivated to do your work for you, based on you claiming your opinion of me has suffered. Oh noes!! I guess you'll have to get it out of someone else. Since you're such a charming chap, you should have no problems getting one of the other posters here to provide you a proper scientific source on common behavioral manifestations of systematic physical abuse in childhood.

Pity there's no easy way to search a large collection of international knowledge for the specific piece of information you seek - a mechanism, if you will, whereby one could, from the comfort of his own home, perform a query on a massive database of knowledge, search it, if you will, for the specific piece of information you desire.

Me and my crazy science-fiction fantasies. Oh well. Guess you'll just have to rely on your charm to get someone around here to spoon-feed you that exact thing, since there's no way to actually look for it (in 0.43 seconds), without spending the next 50 years in a massive library.

[Loki]

So, country A does better than country B on a standardized test is a valid statement after all? Thanks.

It's a meaningless statement. It tells us nothing about why that is the case.

And one might conclude that the reason why country A does WAY better than country B may be grounded in the way its schools are organized is also a valid statement? Yes, I know, Loki, Immigrants, social structure, yadda, yadda, the fact still remains that the difference is a huge one.

Lesson 1 of causal inference: you can't compare heterogeneous units. Before you can say that the reason country A does better than country B is because of cause x, you have to prove that cause x actually has an effect. And no, you can't say that it has an effect because country A does better than country B and only the former has x present. In case you can't see the obvious, that's a tautology. So once again, you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. Please learn the very basics of the scientific method in the social sciences before continuing your absurd arguments.

And my original statement, if I remember correctly was: "A school in my district adopted a similar teaching culture to the finnish model and does way better than the rest. I don't think that's a coincidence." Especially when said school does not handpick its pupils and takes children from all social levels.

Again, this is a sample of 1. It proves absolutely nothing. Seriously, read a book or something.

[CitizenCain]

Seriously, read a book or something.

Yeah, and good luck getting him to do that. I can't even get him to type a phrase into a search engine, FFS. Given that, it seems like the odds of him reading a whole book are slightly lower than my odds of eloping with LittleFuzzy and getting hitched amid all the glitz and glamor of the romance capital of New England (Boston).

[Loki]

You better not. Fuzzy is mine.

[CitizenCain]

I don't see how I can be blamed if you can't hold on to LittleFuzzy.

Maybe you just need to do a better job of satisfying your man, Loki.

[Loki]

Have you not realized how nitpicky he is? Nothing satisfies him.

[LittleFuzzy]

Bite me. Both of you.

[Nessus]

Kinky!

[Loki]

Bite me. Both of you.

Shouldn't this kind of post be restricted to the NSFW thread?

[littlelolligagged]

Shouldn't this kind of post be restricted to the NSFW thread?

Don't talk with your mouth full, Icky.

[CitizenCain]

Bite me. Both of you.

Shouldn't this kind of post be restricted to the NSFW thread?

Only if it includes those pictures I posed for. And by the way, I'm starting to think that maybe they weren't actually to check for signs skin cancer at all.

[Nessus]

Show us on the doll where the elephant touched you

Show us

Slower

Yeah, that's it

[Flixy]

And my original statement, if I remember correctly was: "A school in my district adopted a similar teaching culture to the finnish model and does way better than the rest. I don't think that's a coincidence." Especially when said school does not handpick its pupils and takes children from all social levels.

Well, besides the fact that it's an anecdote, and could be purely coincidental, you should also account for the fact that better, more enthusiastic teachers might apply for a job at that school, because it's different, so they would have better teachers than other schools. Which makes the comparison of methods useless, since the teacher quality isn't similar. Same thing for the students: even if they don't hand pick students, it's a different type of parents who send their kids to special schools, and the parents who make a school choice for a reason other than 'it's close' tend to be more involved in their children's education too. So you can't really compare.

(Note that I don't even disagree with you, but it's really not a good 'proof')

[Khendraja'aro]

Well, besides the fact that it's an anecdote, and could be purely coincidental, you should also account for the fact that better, more enthusiastic teachers might apply for a job at that school, because it's different, so they would have better teachers than other schools. Which makes the comparison of methods useless, since the teacher quality isn't similar. Same thing for the students: even if they don't hand pick students, it's a different type of parents who send their kids to special schools, and the parents who make a school choice for a reason other than 'it's close' tend to be more involved in their children's education too. So you can't really compare.

(Note that I don't even disagree with you, but it's really not a good 'proof')

And I never even said that it's proof, my dear. Just that I don't think it's a coincidence. But some morons obviously think that telling an anecdote like that means that I think that it's causally linked with a correlation factor of 1.

The teachers in that school will be more motivated in any case. Every teacher has his own desk in a room with 4 to 5 desks total, for instance.

[Loki]

Saying that it's not a coincidence suggests that it's proof. WTF. Proof can be probabilistic you know. Do you get taught anything methods-related?

[Khendraja'aro]

Saying that it's not a coincidence suggests that it's proof. WTF. Proof can be probabilistic you know. Do you get taught anything methods-related?

Do you know the difference between "proof" and "suggestion"? Do you get taught anything understanding-english-related?

The world does not consist of binary choices only, Loki.

[Loki]

Now I'm convinced you're talking out of your behind. Have you ever taken a methods class beyond some intro-level stats class?

[Khendraja'aro]

Now I'm convinced you're talking out of your behind. Have you ever taken a methods class beyond some intro-level stats class?

Man, you really seem stuck on this binary world view.

[CitizenCain]

Do you know the difference between "proof" and "suggestion"?

Sure he does. He suggests that you're talking out of your ass constantly. But to prove it, he has to wait for you to post.

[Khendraja'aro]

Sure he does. He suggests that you're talking out of your ass constantly. But to prove it, he has to wait for you to post.

Hey, he ignores the most important study comparing school efficiency. I'm not actually sure what he expects if the PISA study is not enough for Lowkey.

And you're just the one to talk Mr. "It's well established".

[Loki]

Man, you really seem stuck on this binary world view.

You mean a view where some people know what they're talking about and others pretend to? At least you could be honest and admit you're talking out of your behind.

Hey, he ignores the most important study comparing school efficiency. I'm not actually sure what he expects if the PISA study is not enough for Lowkey.

And you're just the one to talk Mr. "It's well established".

The study doesn't "compare" anything because the units under comparison are not homogeneous. FFS, please stop making a fool out of yourself.

[CitizenCain]

And you're just the one to talk Mr. "It's well established".

Better to be "Mr. Well Established" than "Mr. Too Lazy to Type a Provided Query into a Search Engine."

The study doesn't "compare" anything because the units under comparison are not homogeneous. FFS, please stop making a fool out of yourself.

Shut up Loki. Some of us enjoy watching Khen make a fool of himself.

[Khendraja'aro]

Oh, please. By Loki's standards no countries can be compared because nothing is "homogeneous".

Nevermind that the tests were standardized and tested for reading capabilities, the comprehension of text passages, math capabilities and the like. It did not test for rote memorization.

I mean, Loki probably disagrees with PISA because it doesn't make his country look good (once again).

He knows nothing about paedagogics, he knows nothing about psychology, he knows nothing about neurology, so he has to attack this study by the only way he can: Numbers. And even those he can't really attack, instead opting to use fallacious tactics like the countries not being homogeneous.

Oh, and Cain: Loki berates me for not providing sources (which he can very well google himself) and you applaud him for it, while telling me to google your sources? Hypocritical at its best.

[Loki]

Oh, please. By Loki's standards no countries can be compared because nothing is "homogeneous".

Genius, you're not meant to be comparing across countries if at all possible. The most effective way of achieving causal inference is to look at schools that are equal in all ways but one. You're not going to be able to do across countries. If you do want to use countries, you'd have to control for the factors that make the countries different (that might conceivably affect the dependent variable), which your "study" certainly doesn't do. Seriously, get a clue and learn some research methods. This is beyond pathetic.