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Thread: Who should be Tory leader/British PM?

  1. #31
    The vote is eligible to all Conservative MPs who take the whip. 2 MPs have had the whip removed pending investigations, one Andrew Griffiths MP who was accused of sexually harassing women and sending over 2000 harassing text messages. Another, Charlie Elphicke, who was suspended months ago for alleged sexual offences against two female staff. Of course these are both innocent until proven guilty but been accused of serious offences and the whip had been removed from both while they try to clear their names. While the whip is removed they're independent MPs and not Tories and not eligible to vote in party matters like this.

    Today both have been given the whip back and have pledged to back May. Meaning they're now Tory MPs again and not independents and so eligible to vote.

    That's absolutely disgusting. Innocent until proven guilty of course, but then that was true before the whip was removed. The decision was made that the allegations were serious enough to remove the whip, to restore it just so they can vote today makes me ashamed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    There's 15 weeks until Brexit. I can't image why anyone would think spending 7 or more of those weeks having a Tory leadership election was a good idea. If they wanted rid of May they've had ample opportunity before now. Stupid bastards.
    Well yes May should have gone a while ago, but May isn't negotiating anything new now. The shambles of her pulling the vote as she knew she'd lose it, then scurrying around Europe only to be rejected by her European partners was embarrassing. May would achieve nothing more with 15 weeks. If a new leader only has 8 weeks he or she has more chance of an 11th hour better deal than May does.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  3. #33
    Why? What's a new leader going to do that May can't? The Europeans have already said 'no' to changed the deal, there's no majority in parliament for the deal, nor is there are majority of any conceivable alternative course of action.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Why? What's a new leader going to do that May can't? The Europeans have already said 'no' to changed the deal, there's no majority in parliament for the deal, nor is there are majority of any conceivable alternative course of action.
    There also wasn't a majority in Greece for the bail-out conditions. Just saying.
    Congratulations America

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Why? What's a new leader going to do that May can't? The Europeans have already said 'no' to changed the deal, there's no majority in parliament for the deal, nor is there are majority of any conceivable alternative course of action.
    Currently in Parliament there's no majority for the deal and no majority for any alternative as there are 4 groups of people.
    * MPs who back the deal.
    * MPs who want the deal renegotiated.
    * MPs who want remain at any cost.
    * MPs who want "no deal".

    I'm of the second camp. I don't believe the EU won't make changes (5 minutes to midnight changes are an EU specialty) and don't trust May to bat hard for Britain. Changing May for someone more trusted could result in one or two options that could result in a deal being acceptable, or an alternative getting a majority.

    Possibility One: The EU renegotiates. Deal becomes acceptable, gets a majority. We all move on.
    Possibility Two: The EU stands steadfast. Someone elected on getting changes begrudgingly accepts it is not possible. Those who wanted a renegotiation accept it isn't possible. Break to either supporting the deal as is afterall or an alternative. Could result in a majority for either the deal or another option.

    Even if May's successor achieves nothing, because of possibility two it makes a majority in Parliament more likely.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #36
    You also thought the EU would give in a hundred times in the past. And you were wrong each time. The most the EU will do is allow for some cosmetic changes that would allow a British PM to save face with an incredibly uninformed electorate.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You also thought the EU would give in a hundred times in the past. And you were wrong each time. The most the EU will do is allow for some cosmetic changes that would allow a British PM to save face with an incredibly uninformed electorate.
    I did? When?

    I have not had faith in May from the beginning and do not recall ever saying they would to her.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #38
    200 vs 117. Nowhere near as tight as I expected, but not great considering that she's promised to go before the next election.
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  9. #39
    Wow, Reece-Mog et al really didn't do the math on this whole thing.

    Bit like their ideas about Brexit, lol.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You also thought the EU would give in a hundred times in the past. And you were wrong each time. The most the EU will do is allow for some cosmetic changes that would allow a British PM to save face with an incredibly uninformed electorate.
    The reason why he doesn't understand the negotiations is that he and the people he listens to think this is a negotiation inside the EU. It of course is not, it is a negotiation of 27 EU members with a country that wants to terminate its membership. There is not going to be a '5 to 12' deal making scenario, because no matter how you look at it, the EU can not suspend its own founding treaties.

    He also doesn't understand that May and her team got an incredibly good deal under the circumstances. A deal so good that I think the EU has given too much already.
    Congratulations America

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I did? When?

    I have not had faith in May from the beginning and do not recall ever saying they would to her.
    You said the UK had the stronger hand time and time again.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You said the UK had the stronger hand time and time again.
    Don't think so. I think I've said all along the UK needed to act differently than how we are acting.

    I've also said Ireland are bluffing because they have a different goal to us.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #43
    Really? Forgotten about how you were telling us that Merkle wasn't going to let the UK leave without a deal because German car manufacturers? About how their trade with us is somehow more important to them than our trade with them is to us? About how our net £9 billion contribute to the EU coffers meant they were going bend over backwards and give us whatever we wanted? I sure as shit haven't.

    In other news, even the Daily Express is sick of ERG bullshit:

    Click to view the full version
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  14. #44
    Anyway, the latest thing is the EU has offered a guarantee to keep negotiating even if the time runs out and no trade deal has been agreed.

    Because that's what seemingly keeps getting forgotten: this Isn't Even the Final Form of the deal, so even if this is somehow sorted out, we can expect 2 more years of this bullshit: Euroskeptics insisting that every compromise is cowardice and betrayal, and that more could have been one if only the negotiators had talked to the EU in a sterner voice or whatever. These fucking people are living in an absolute fantasy world.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Don't think so. I think I've said all along the UK needed to act differently than how we are acting.

    I've also said Ireland are bluffing because they have a different goal to us.
    Don't think you are more important to us than Ireland.
    Congratulations America

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