Clearly to you, perhaps. There are also plenty of plenty of places where, say, denying the Holocaust is illegal. And according to your courts psychological damages can be quite impressive, if I'm to believe some of your lawsuits, so I suppose being insulted or made fun of can do you harm. Not that I agree with any of this, but your argument assumes everyone has the same values as you have.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
And I would argue that this is undemocratic/illiberal. But banning one narrow type of speech is still preferable to banning all controversial public speech, which seems to be the direction Britain is heading in.Originally Posted by Flixy
Hope is the denial of reality
And I would agree with you, but it's not like this is fundamentally different from the other thread. It's about where a (democratic) society places the bar.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
My point is that it stops being a democratic society after a point.
Hope is the denial of reality
It's not just the type of speech; it's the “place” where the speech occurs. Wonder if Facebook can sue the British gummint for meddling
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ed-months.html
In case anyone thought the idiocy was restricted to posting on Facebook/Twitter.
Hope is the denial of reality
The back would be illegal in a number of countries, though? Insulting an officer is generally not allowed. Anyway, it is a different law altogether.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Insulting a specific officer to his face is not allowed. Insulting the police definitely is. I don't see any specific threat there.
Hope is the denial of reality
In case anyone thought the street was less public than facebook, or that there was only one law
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
While on duty, yes. Wearing it and showing it to a cop, on duty, would be insulting.
Keep on keepin' the beat alive!
Heaven forfend that people we entrust to enforce the law and protect us have a thick skin.
Brevior saltare cum deformibus viris est vita
Wearing a t-shirt saying "one less pig" hours after 2 cops get murdered would be bad enough, but it also on the back arguably could be considered threatening "kill a cop 4 fun.co.uk"?
Bad enough in what way? It's highly insulting, sure. You want to make insults illegal? And the second part is so vague that there's no way to constitute it as a specific threat.
Hope is the denial of reality
Again there are universally laws regarding certain types of harrassment and the latter could arguably be considered incitement to violence anyway.
But no I don't want insults to be illegal. Currently grossly offensive insults ARE illegal though.
Harassment needs a specific victim, be directed at that victim, and be a whole pattern of behavior. Incitement to violence must be clear in terms of the target and in terms of the threat. There's absolutely no harassment case to be made him. The incitement to violence case would be on incredibly shake grounds.
I wonder how long before criticizing unions or Islamism becomes "grossly offensive". It already is in certain university campuses in Britain.
Hope is the denial of reality
As soon as possible, hopefully. Then people might go "this is fucking stupid" and roll it back.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
The latter already is.
Unless asking for it to be rolled back is also considered grossly offensive.
Hope is the denial of reality
We'll have to get meta and say that saying things are grossly offensive is grossly offensive.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
I honestly think Britain is slowly headed in that direction. There's little if any public reaction to these ridiculous prosecutions. It's only a matter of time before the government (or some bureaucrats) decide that even stricter restrictions are called for.
Hope is the denial of reality
You've been sure Britain is about to become a police state for years now, though.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
No, I've been saying it's becoming more of one. The kind of prosecutions you're having now would be unthinkable 5 years ago.
Hope is the denial of reality
Bah humbug, as much as its fun to draw parallels to 1984 the reality is that in this era of the internet there's never been freer or more diverse speech than there is now.
20 years ago it was illegal for the TV channels to broadcast IRA/Sinn Fein spokesmen's voices so they would be dubbed with their faces but someone else reading the words.
30 years ago there was only the BBC and a single other TV Channel ITV.
40 years ago the BBC had a monopoly on legal radio.
The Twitter Bomb joke trial, which was sort of the first of the 'incredibly dumb prosecutions over things said on twitter' was in 2009. Three years ago. So I hardly think that's accurate.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
That was funny as hell.20 years ago it was illegal for the TV channels to broadcast IRA/Sinn Fein spokesmen's voices so they would be dubbed with their faces but someone else reading the words.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
There's a slight difference between overreacting against an enemy trying to destroy you and overreacting over any average citizens saying something offensive. As for a lack of TV and radio channels, newspapers still existed (and were far more popular than they are now).
What's inaccurate? You're supporting my statement. This kind of behavior only started 3 years ago.
Hope is the denial of reality
I forget, when did Facebook and Twitter really take off?
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
That such prosecutions were 'unthinkable' five years ago.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
People have been saying all kinds of insane stuff on the internet for more than a decade. Myspace and Facebook were pretty big since at least 2006.
And yet who predicted it? The police state comments were always directed at how heavily monitored the British people were, not at how little free speech meant to your government.
Hope is the denial of reality
Its not that TV and radio diversity didn't exist due to a lack of technology/demand, they were simply illegal and "pirate radio" like Radio Caroline was fought against. On the subject of radio, punk rock songs that would be positively mild by today's standards (think anything by the Sex Pistols etc) were banned from broadcast years ago. Its possible to hear God Save The Queen (Its a fascist regime) on the radio or online now, unlike before. Just because newspapers existed did not mean that a newspaper would publish "one pig down, kill cops 4 fun" does it?
Are you seriously saying that there is less free speech today than any era ever before just because ofnewspapers? Seriously?
There is more free speech today than EVER before. New laws are trying to handle people trying to push the limits of that.
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