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Thread: Should there be a Brexit extension?

  1. #1

    Default Should there be a Brexit extension?

    Supposedly Brexit-day is nearly upon us. Supposedly we leave next week. After nearly three years since the referendum, after nearly two years since Article 50 was invoked the clock runs out at 11pm next Friday 29th March.

    Or will it? Parliament has been unable to make any decisions, the "deal" May agreed is widely hated and Parliament has twice rejected it but also rejected all alternatives to it. Parliament is frankly acting like my toddler saying no to everything.

    So Parliament has voted, as May encouraged it to do so, to request an extension. But without specifying a reason why. To quote a well worn phrase, nothing has changed.

    I think an extension will be granted because nobody really wants no deal to happen, but Macron has repeatedly hinted he could exercise his veto and reject an extension request. Which would be rather ironic since it was De Gaulle repeatedly vetoing our membership requests that meant we joined so late, it would be ironic if having gone to the precipice it was a French president who actually forced the UK out.

    Both May and Parliament seem to have no intentions of making any decisions and are looking to buy more time. I think it would be reasonable for Macron to refuse it. This needs to end. If Parliament wants to take no deal off the table then it has a choice, it can ratify the deal. That stops no deal. Or it can decide it wants no deal. Either way its time Parliament actually makes a choice.

    I think for once on European matters I might agree with Hazir but unless the UK is willing to come to a decision I think the EU should refuse to grant an extension. Macron should veto a meandering extension but should caveat that with saying that if Parliament votes for the deal he would agree to a short technical extension to allow it to be legally ratified. Then Parliament should make a damned choice and put this issue to bed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #2
    Yes.

    I might need to replace my car soon.

    After that? Knock yourselves out. Take back control. Do those trade deals. Blue passports.
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  3. #3
    What sort of extension? For how long and what purpose?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #4
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    No. The process has become more damaging than the economic damage of the cliff edge. The UK is in a constant state of crisis and the EU is losing credibility by accommodating the continuation of this madness.

    For the UK to heal Brexit needs to happen.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  5. #5
    It needs to be another five months, and the purpose is so that I can get a new car without the risk of having to pay higher prices because of any tariffs etc.

    As for trying to construct some sort of reasoning for an extension based on national interest based on some kind of political theory or principles? I honestly don't see the point, because right now parliament isn't acting on the basis of any of those things. You and I agree on nothing about Brexit but we both think parliament should have agreed the deal and that they're being assholes. So all we can do is theory craft about what might happen in a universe where parliament wasn't some kind of random force in the universe. So at this point damage limitation is all I care about.

    In principle, we need to call another election. This parliament can't agree anything, the math of it is fucked and the government can't get anything passed on the most important issue of the day, so there should be another election. But May isn't going to do that after how badly it went for her last time, so damage limitation it is.

    I have to appreciate that the government had a point when it tried so hard to stop parliament having an (increasingly misnamed) 'meaningful vote' in the first place.
    Genie let out of the bottle, it is now the witching hour
    Murderers, you're murderers, we are not the same as you
    When the walls bend with your breathing
    They will suck you down to the other side, with the shadows blue and red
    Your alarm bells; they should be ringing
    This is the gloaming

  6. #6
    I don't think it matters; we're fucked either way.

    This is literally step 1 of a 1,000 step journey and the country has no fucking clue what it wants.

    This is a problem that cannot be solved. It's the mother of all can-of-worms and will ultimately destroy parliament, our political parties and the UK.

    It's exactly what the Russians wanted, and played for, and we fell right into it.

  7. #7
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    It will not destroy your country, but your Constitution is pretty much toast already.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    It will not destroy your country, but your Constitution is pretty much toast already.
    No our constitution works well at adapting to problems. We make it up as we go along.

    Even now Bercow is reinventing the constitution today. Sometimes a bit of flexibility works better than a dogmatic adherence to written rules.

    Looks like Macron might be serious. Hope so. https://www.lepoint.fr/politique/emm...02680_1897.php

    At this point I almost don't care if Parliament backs the deal or we crash out with no deal. Neither outcome are what I wanted but either way a decision has to be made.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #10
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    Well, not allowing the asked for delay doesn't mean no delay yet. But it seems that by and large the date of 30th of june is not acceptable to the EU.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #11
    I don't understand why 30th June is out but 23rd May is acceptable.

    The issue is that we have a legal right to revoke and if we do so post the elections it will screw things up, but realistically it makes no difference if we unilaterally revoke on 22nd May or do so on 29th June. Even if we unilaterally revoked on 22nd May, it would not become magically possible to hold the elections in time.

    The deadline to decide we are hosting the elections is 11 April. So if 30 June extension is out, then the latest an extension should be granted to is 11 April.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't understand why 30th June is out but 23rd May is acceptable.

    The issue is that we have a legal right to revoke and if we do so post the elections it will screw things up, but realistically it makes no difference if we unilaterally revoke on 22nd May or do so on 29th June. Even if we unilaterally revoked on 22nd May, it would not become magically possible to hold the elections in time.

    The deadline to decide we are hosting the elections is 11 April. So if 30 June extension is out, then the latest an extension should be granted to is 11 April.
    I guess the 23 is chosen as the point before which everything is clear. From the 23rd everything is uncertain; is not holding elections for the EP which as long as you are members are supposed to elect members for, legal or not? Nobody wants to be burdened with that question I guess.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  13. #13
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    Tusk keeps hoping for a Brexit with an agreement, and seems to say ratification of the WA is conditional for any delay at all.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  14. #14
    Entirely reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #16
    I hear there are protests, calling for another referendum, to cancel the Brexit referendum. What's next, a referendum to ban referendums?

  17. #17
    Sore losers who haven't accepted they lost. Same old same old. Nothing new there, people are entitled to protest to express they're not happy - doesn't overturn democracy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #18
    Having yours eyes opened to a dreadful reality and pushing for change when realising that reality is also democracy.

    Over a million marched in London according to organisers. Astonishing sights.













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  19. #19
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    But why do they march?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  20. #20
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Sore losers who haven't accepted they lost. Same old same old. Nothing new there, people are entitled to protest to express they're not happy - doesn't overturn democracy.
    Why is it only democracy if you get what you want?

    A REAL democracy is about compromise. A decision which creates a perpetual rift between two halves of your country is pretty much the opposite of that.

    Fine. Fuck yourselves over and don't come whining to our dorr steps when your little britain finally implodes.
    When the stars threw down their spears
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Fine. Fuck yourselves over and don't come whining to our dorr steps when your little britain finally implodes.
    That seems a little harsh on those of us who want to stay in the EU. Randy and Farage are representative of Brexiteers, not the whole country.
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  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Why is it only democracy if you get what you want?
    It's a democracy when everyone gets a say and is counted equally. In a binary choice it means majority wins.
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    A REAL democracy is about compromise. A decision which creates a perpetual rift between two halves of your country is pretty much the opposite of that.

    Fine. Fuck yourselves over and don't come whining to our dorr steps when your little britain finally implodes.
    Indeed and the government has more than compromised. This BINO deal is to the satisfaction of Ken Clarke - now I have a lot of time for Ken Clarke but he's hardly a Eurosceptic. If Ken Clarke is happy with the deal its safe to say its a very Remain-biased deal and only die-in-the-ditch extremists or people who oppose for oppositions sake are refusing this from the Remain side.

    Which they're welcome to do, but don't say it isn't a compromise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    Having yours eyes opened to a dreadful reality and pushing for change when realising that reality is also democracy.

    Over a million marched in London according to organisers. Astonishing sights.
    And how many of them voted Leave 2 years ago, and how many of them voted Remain and are still pissed off they lost?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  24. #24
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    If a second referendum is called, and the pro-racism/pro-tax haven/anti-workers rights side lose, will you accept the result Randy?
    Last edited by Unheard Of; 03-24-2019 at 06:30 PM.
    Greetings, citizen! THE COMPUTER has made you a protector of the underground city of ALPHA COMPLEX. You will have lots of fun rooting out Communist mutant traitors. The Computer says so.

  25. #25
    There should not be an extension.

    1. I can't stand the thought of all my social media feeds filling up with another inane portmanteau enshrining English fuckery.

    2. I have no investments denominated in sterling.

    3. I have seen all the musicals I want to see for the time being.

    4. Our favourite shops in London are a little pricey and we'd like to stock up on nice t-shirts and dresses.

    5. Many businesses in the UK--and many more in EU27--have prepared for a specific exit date, and it will be impractical or prohibitively expensive to alter those contingency plans.

    5. Some of the UK's MEPs are just the dumbest little shits and they should be encouraged to go home.

    But there should also be an extension.

    1. The British public should get a chance to affirmatively accept either May's deal, another deal, no deal or no Brexit, now that they can better evaluate those options. At present, British citizens are still EU citizens, as are all EU27 citizens in the UK. If a short extension can help safeguard their right to actively control their lives, it's worth it.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    This BINO deal is to the satisfaction of Ken Clarke - now I have a lot of time for Ken Clarke but he's hardly a Eurosceptic. If Ken Clarke is happy with the deal its safe to say its a very Remain-biased deal and only die-in-the-ditch extremists or people who oppose for oppositions sake are refusing this from the Remain side.
    No, that is a super dumb take. It only shows that the deal is preferable to no deal. If you have to eat shit, it may be preferable to eat a shit sandwich than to just eat a naked turd.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
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  27. #27
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    Brexiters who hate the backstop seem to be unaware of the fact that after Brexit,mig it happens, Ireland still has a veto over any subsequent agreement.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Why is it only democracy if you get what you want?

    A REAL democracy is about compromise.
    No, politics is about compromise. Direct democracy is mostly about sweeping simplicity and the law of unintended consequences incessantly biting voters on the ass.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  29. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    ... incessantly biting voters on the ass.
    See, this is incorrect.
    .

  30. #30
    I'm not convinced it will ever actually happen.

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