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Thread: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

  1. #1

    Default Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    ... is that the end of a realistic chance of the Democrat's healthcare reforms?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    Hopefully it's beginning of Obama and the Senate leadership actually reaching out to moderate Republicans in good faith and creating a bill that has some support from both sides of the aisle. A measure passed entirely by one party is likely to be gutted when the other comes into power.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  3. #3

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    Is it though? My feeling is that once entitlements like this are passed, it's sort of untouchable. As it stands, this plan will only make things worse over time...it's less clear if the impact will be immediately obvious.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
    Is it though? My feeling is that once entitlements like this are passed, it's sort of untouchable.
    I agree. And this is one of the reasons I think these things need to be approached carefully and massive changes in one go should be avoided. You don't get to decide it was actually a bad idea and repeal it later on.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught
    Is it though? My feeling is that once entitlements like this are passed, it's sort of untouchable. As it stands, this plan will only make things worse over time...it's less clear if the impact will be immediately obvious.
    Mostly because who's against the elderly or orphans? In this case, it would be easy to attack on purely political grounds. I really don't think it would survive in its present form once Republicans took over the government.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  6. #6

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    Except what are the odds of the GOP having 60 senate seats, the Dems could block it otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    They could simply refuse to increase funding for it, and programs that have stagnant funding tend to starve to death.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #8

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    They would be pissing off the voters, and would hand the next election to the Democrats.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    The results of this election (in a pretty left wing state) and other polls suggest that the voters aren't buying what Obama is selling.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  10. #10

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    I'm not sure funding works that way for healthcare, Loki. It's certainly not part of the discretionary spending - I'm pretty sure the government is required to fund the program as constituted by law unless the law is repealed/changed.

    I'm seriously hoping that the Blue Dogs in the Senate gain preeminence. My big worry, though, is that they'll just further water down the current atrocious legislation instead of writing a reform that actually makes sense and will reduce entitlement spending to something reasonable. It's really hard to sell such an expensive program in the current climate, especially when it's clearly only addressing the access problem and not the cost structure.

    Ender
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    The Australian government under John Howard had a majority in the Senate, which they used to introduce heavy industrial relations laws. Labour one the next election on the promise that they would remove that policy. Did they? No, not really. They realised that parts of it work. I assume something similiar will happen in America with health, if it ever passes.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki
    The results of this election (in a pretty left wing state) and other polls suggest that the voters aren't buying what Obama is selling.
    Only because he hasn't sold it yet. Before it's instituted, it can be stopped. Afterwards, we'll be stuck with it. There isn't much of a success rate for getting rid of entitlement programs in this country. Even when every rational person agrees they're wastes of money. See: agriculture subsidies.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE60J0PS20100120

    Factbox: Why did the Democrats lose Massachusetts?
    Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:00pm EST

    (Reuters) - Massachusetts on Tuesday elected the state's first Republican to serve in the Senate in decades, a stunning upset that threatens to undermine Democrats' dominance in Washington.

    Barack Obama

    The once-safe Democratic seat, held by party giant Edward Kennedy until his death last August, was won convincingly by Republican state Senator Scott Brown over Democratic state Attorney General Martha Coakley.

    With 95 percent of precincts reporting, Brown led by about 5 percentage points.

    Here are some reasons why the New England state's 6.5 million people turned away from Democrats after President Barack Obama won the state handily in the 2008 presidential election:

    + National anti-incumbent sentiment


    The party in power traditionally loses seats in an off-year election after a presidential victory, and for Obama the backlash seems well under way.

    Massachusetts is traditionally among the most liberal U.S. states, but in the latest election became part of a national swing against Obama and the Democrats who control Congress by a wide margin.

    Conservative groups sent in millions of dollars in donations to fund advertising, and a small army of volunteers helped Brown get out the vote, neutralizing the Democrats' perceived advantage in the electoral "ground war."

    Obama won the state by 26 percentage points in 2008. But his popularity among likely voters in the Massachusetts election was estimated at under 50 percent in three polls over the past week.

    + Healthcare legislation and costs


    Concerns about the cost of the potential healthcare legislation, as well as the rising federal deficit, energized support for Brown in many areas.

    Brown vowed to be the 41st vote against the Democrats' healthcare reform bill, while Coakley promised to support the bill.

    Respondents to several pre-election polls cited healthcare reform, the weak economy and high unemployment as the biggest factors guiding their votes.

    Massachusetts enacted a near-universal state healthcare law in 2006 -- a move supported by Brown in the state Senate. The state arguably has less to gain from the federal measures now being considered.

    + Democrat was weak candidate

    Democratic contender Coakley has won solid approval ratings as state attorney general since 2006.

    But after cruising to victory in a four-way primary battle in December, Coakley conducted what many pundits called an ineffective campaign -- especially compared with Brown, a personable attorney and former model who made a marathon trek across the state in his pickup truck to court voters.

    Coakley disappeared from the campaign trail for almost a week around Christmas, at just the time that Brown's campaign was catching fire.

    Independent voters who came out in force for Obama were cool on Coakley. A large slice of Brown's support came from independents in suburban areas who voted for Obama in 2008.

    + Kennedy fatigue

    Kennedy's passing marked the end of an era, with none of the younger Kennedy generation opting to make a run.

    Most of the Democratic primary contenders -- although not Coakley -- tried to exploit the Kennedy mystique. Kennedy's widow, Vicki, campaigned for Coakley and urged voters to continue her husband's legacy.

    But Brown got in the best zinger of the campaign, in a televised debate with Coakley on January 11:

    "With all due respect, it's not the Kennedys' seat. It's not the Democrats' seat. It's the people's seat."

    + Voters fed up with political corruption

    Coakley has arguably been swept up in a backlash against Massachusetts' long history of one-party dominance.

    The concentration of power in the hands of the Democratic Party has given rise to a series of scandals that disgusted some normally reliable Democratic voters.

    Three consecutive former Massachusetts House speakers have been indicted, and three state senators have resigned in disgrace in the past two years for various infractions.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  14. #14

    Default Re: Since the Democrats lost Massachussets tonight ...

    That Reuters article is spot on.

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