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Thread: May's out. Who's in?

  1. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I think Vine's point has gone over your head. He's not crazy.

    He had an act that his audience loved, which is what he was getting paid for. But it was an act. That's the point of Vine's story. All the blustering, the foolhardiness, the clowning around - it was put on and he did it very well.
    If only the lack of preparedness (except for a made-up anti-EU story that contributed to the stupidity of Brexit) and lack of shame to go along with it wasn't his MO on all issues.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  2. #152
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  3. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I think Vine's point has gone over your head. He's not crazy.

    He had an act that his audience loved, which is what he was getting paid for. But it was an act. That's the point of Vine's story. All the blustering, the foolhardiness, the clowning around - it was put on and he did it very well.
    Don't be distracted by his theatrics, that seems to be part of his shtick. The US got distracted by the antics of a blustering clown, and look what that got us.

    When someone shows their character, believe it. Isn't there someone other than Boris that you could support because they 'share your principles'?

  4. #154
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Don't be distracted by his theatrics, that seems to be part of his shtick. The US got distracted by the antics of a blustering clown, and look what that got us.

    When someone shows their character, believe it. Isn't there someone other than Boris that you could support because they 'share your principles'?
    Yes: Hunt, Javid, Gove.
    No: Raab
    No now but possiby next time: Stewart.

    But they're not going to win.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  5. #155
    2nd vote due.

    6 left in the running:
    Johnson
    Hunt
    Raab
    Javid
    Gove
    Stewart

    One televised debate taken place, with Boris declining to take part, and the BBC scheduling another one tonight, which Boris says he will attend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post
    2nd vote due.

    6 left in the running:
    Johnson
    Hunt
    Raab
    Javid
    Gove
    Stewart

    One televised debate taken place, with Boris declining to take part, and the BBC scheduling another one tonight, which Boris says he will attend.
    I saw a little part of that debate. Amazing what lies these guys can get away with still. Doesn't anybody ever think to call them out ?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  7. #157
    This Vicious Cabaret Unheard Of's Avatar
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    Conservative party members would rather break up the United Kingdom than stop Brexit

    Given this I can see why most of the candidates are playing to the extremists - it's the only way to win the leadership vote.
    Last edited by Unheard Of; 06-18-2019 at 08:44 PM.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unheard Of View Post
    Conservative party members would rather break up the United Kingdom than stop Brexit

    Given this I can see why most of the candidates are playing to the extremists - it's the only way to win the leadership vote.
    I'm not talking about playing to the extremists. I am talking about telling bald faced lies that have been debunked at several times. They repeat them and nobody, including the moderator, calls them out on it. In the snippet I saw Johnson said there was the Gatt article 24 route in case of a no deal. The prerequisites for the application of article 24 are that there is actually a deal in the making and that both sides agree to its application. Meaning that THERE IS NO FUCKING GETTING OUT ON WTO TERMS as Brexitards repeatedly claim they should do because 'they never voted for a deal'.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  9. #159
    Raab out.

    Click to view the full version
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  10. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I'm not talking about playing to the extremists. I am talking about telling bald faced lies that have been debunked at several times. They repeat them and nobody, including the moderator, calls them out on it. In the snippet I saw Johnson said there was the Gatt article 24 route in case of a no deal. The prerequisites for the application of article 24 are that there is actually a deal in the making and that both sides agree to its application. Meaning that THERE IS NO FUCKING GETTING OUT ON WTO TERMS as Brexitards repeatedly claim they should do because 'they never voted for a deal'.
    Indeed. A fact-check the beeb did after the debate pulled that one up, plus claims from the other 5.



    All the candidates were asked about their plan for the Irish border after Brexit (most want to change the Irish backstop plan negotiated by Theresa May to avoid a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic).
    Boris Johnson was challenged by Rory Stewart to detail what tariffs (taxes on imports) would be charged on agricultural goods crossing the border.
    He said there would be "no tariffs or quotas" because "what we want to do is get a standstill in our current arrangements under GATT 24" until a free trade deal had been negotiated.
    GATT 24 is an article of the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade. Supporters of a no-deal Brexit say it would allow the UK to continue to trade with the EU without tariffs for up to 10 years, while the two sides were negotiating a permanent future trade agreement.
    But you can't use it in this way - a trade agreement has to be agreed in principle before Article 24 can be used.
    It also needs the two sides to agree - the UK can't just impose it on the EU




    Home Secretary Sajid Javid outlined his plan to keep the Irish border open after Brexit - he said he would use existing technology.
    Other borders between EU and non-EU countries do use technology - for example at the Sweden-Norway border cars go through unmanned border posts equipped with cameras that use an automatic number plate recognition system and goods are declared to customs before they leave warehouses.
    But there is still some physical infrastructure. The EU still requires physical checks of goods at the Swedish border, so this system alone wouldn't eliminate the need for checks at the border in Ireland - a key sticking point in negotiations.










    Last week, the government said it would pass a law committing the UK to cutting net emissions of greenhouse gases to zero by 2050 (that means any remaining emissions will be offset by investing in carbon reduction projects in other countries).
    Rory Stewart said that it was the most ambitious target so far set by any advanced industrial economy.
    The UK would indeed be the first major industrial economy to legislate in this way, and the first G7 country to set a net-zero emissions target by 2050.
    But, the Green Party has pointed out that Norway has a 2030 target for net-zero emissions, while Finland has committed to be carbon neutral by 2035.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  11. #161
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    The problem is that people on average at most watch the debate. Which means that the lie has way more traction than the factcheck.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  12. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Timbuk2 View Post







    Last week, the government said it would pass a law committing the UK to cutting net emissions of greenhouse gases to zero by 2050 (that means any remaining emissions will be offset by investing in carbon reduction projects in other countries).
    Rory Stewart said that it was the most ambitious target so far set by any advanced industrial economy.
    The UK would indeed be the first major industrial economy to legislate in this way, and the first G7 country to set a net-zero emissions target by 2050.
    But, the Green Party has pointed out that Norway has a 2030 target for net-zero emissions, while Finland has committed to be carbon neutral by 2035.
    Some of these so-called fact checks are pathetic nitpicking.

    Gove: Yes there are 619k more primary pupils but that doesn't exceed the 1.9 million extra pupils in good or outstanding schools. That accounts for less than a third of the change. Furthermore not all extra pupils will have gone into good/outstanding schools. So what Gove said was 100% correct and this "fact check" doesn't change that.
    Hunt: Not being able to read to the expected level of ability is to be fair synonymous with not being able to read.
    Rory: He said advanced industrial economy, they say major industrial economy. Again synonyms.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  13. #163
    Johnson's lie should have been challenged immediately. That it wasn't challenged suggests everyone present were idiots—because the claim has been known to be false for a very long time—or callous cynics who're counting on Tory members being ignorant and are themselves too chickenshit to uphold truthfulness in politics.

    Hunt's lie was, I believe, prompted by the recent lie about the same topic by the dumbest figure in conservative English politics, namely Toby Young.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #164
    Boris's is a matter of opinion.

    Hunt's though isn't a lie. 25% reaching below an expected level of reading is poor no matter what.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Hunt: Not being able to read to the expected level of ability is to be fair synonymous with not being able to read.
    It's quite literally not. A ninth grader who can't read at the level of other ninth graders, but who can nevertheless read at the level of a sixth grader, can still read. A sixth grader who can't read at the level of other sixth graders, but who can read at the level of a fourth grader, can still read. Hunt's claim implies 25% absolute illiteracy whereas the data supports, at most, up to 25% sub-literacy for children leaving primary education, often described using the misleading term "functional illiteracy". The two are not synonyms except when viewed through the lens of simplism or outright stupidity.

    He said advanced industrial economy, they say major industrial economy. Again synonyms.
    No, the two are not synonymous. The adjective "advanced" connotes a particular type of economy—developed, high-tech, higher share of highly skilled jobs and sophisticated businesses. The adjective "major" connotes a certain (unspecified) magnitude, ie. an economy of a certain size or significance relative to other economies.
    Last edited by Aimless; 06-19-2019 at 10:44 AM.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  16. #166
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Boris's is a matter of opinion.
    Not really, no. To the extent that it is a matter of opinion, his opinion is most likely wrong, at least as far as trade law experts and especially WTO experts are concerned. Boris is neither.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Boris's is a matter of opinion.
    It's literally not:

    https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e...on_art24_e.htm

    5. Accordingly, the provisions of this Agreement shall not prevent, as between the territories of contracting parties, the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area or the adoption of an interim agreement necessary for the formation of a customs union or of a free-trade area; Provided that:

    (a) with respect to a customs union, or an interim agreement leading to a formation of a customs union, the duties and other regulations of commerce imposed at the institution of any such union or interim agreement in respect of trade with contracting parties not parties to such union or agreement shall not on the whole be higher or more restrictive than the general incidence of the duties and regulations of commerce applicable in the constituent territories prior to the formation of such union or the adoption of such interim agreement, as the case may be;


    (b) with respect to a free-trade area, or an interim agreement leading to the formation of a free-trade area, the duties and other regulations of commerce maintained in each of the constituent territories and applicable at the formation of such free–trade area or the adoption of such interim agreement to the trade of contracting parties not included in such area or not parties to such agreement shall not be higher or more restrictive than the corresponding duties and other regulations of commerce existing in the same constituent territories prior to the formation of the free-trade area, or interim agreement as the case may be; and


    (c) any interim agreement referred to in subparagraphs (a) and (b) shall include a plan and schedule for the formation of such a customs union or of such a free-trade area within a reasonable length of time.
    You cannot use this as a stop gap 'until you negotiate a free trade agreement' or some kind of get of gaol free card in the event of no deal, you can only use it to allow an interim agreement for a free trade area you already agreed. So a bit like the withdrawl agreement we already tried to negotiate and failed because we couldn't resolve the Northern Ireland issue.
    Sing in grief, a requiem, the curse of our millennium, these souls keep whispering from the river beds
    An end to all these violent means, alive in these red water dreams, their haunted burdens stirring in my head on streets still running red
    Most went in the flood, a few were martyred by the flames, yet those who unleashed the waters are still guilty all the same
    When the ignorance of puppets serves the masters larger game, they let it rain, they let it rain
    When I get the chance to rise I'll find the light in their cold eyes or lose myself and carry out revenge
    The righteous hunt has just begun, the dimming of the bleeding sun will let these waters run clear once again



  18. #168
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    And since Brexitards need to be reminded on a daily basis ; the EU cannot and will not negotiate a trade deal with one of its members. It more specifically will not do so with a member it cannot conclude a withdrawal agreement with.

    None of the above should be a surprise to anyone who has been shooting off his mouth about his country's EU membership for two decades now. Yet strangely it is.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  19. #169
    BREAKING: The Littlest Tory has been eliminated after being ganged up on by all the other big, mean Tories.
    Sing in grief, a requiem, the curse of our millennium, these souls keep whispering from the river beds
    An end to all these violent means, alive in these red water dreams, their haunted burdens stirring in my head on streets still running red
    Most went in the flood, a few were martyred by the flames, yet those who unleashed the waters are still guilty all the same
    When the ignorance of puppets serves the masters larger game, they let it rain, they let it rain
    When I get the chance to rise I'll find the light in their cold eyes or lose myself and carry out revenge
    The righteous hunt has just begun, the dimming of the bleeding sun will let these waters run clear once again



  20. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    It's quite literally not. A ninth grader who can't read at the level of other ninth graders, but who can nevertheless read at the level of a sixth grader, can still read. A sixth grader who can't read at the level of other sixth graders, but who can read at the level of a fourth grader, can still read. Hunt's claim implies 25% absolute illiteracy whereas the data supports, at most, up to 25% sub-literacy for children leaving primary education, often described using the misleading term "functional illiteracy". The two are not synonyms except when viewed through the lens of simplism or outright stupidity.
    We aren't talking about ninth graders, the age was given in the quote. The example used is primary education which is sixth graders and I'm sorry but a fourth grade level for a sixth grader is not literate. Functional illiteracy is not misleading, if a 4th grade level were sufficient we would rest there.


    No, the two are not synonymous. The adjective "advanced" connotes a particular type of economy—developed, high-tech, higher share of highly skilled jobs and sophisticated businesses. The adjective "major" connotes a certain (unspecified) magnitude, ie. an economy of a certain size or significance relative to other economies.[/QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #171
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    But tell us RandBlade. How happy are you about probably having a new unelected prime minister who's either a pathological liar or utterly incompetent next month?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  22. #172
    I don't think Boris is either and I'll be quite happy to have him PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #173
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    I don't think Boris is either and I'll be quite happy to have him PM.
    Even though you lost all respect for him?
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

  24. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Khendraja'aro View Post
    Even though you lost all respect for him?
    He's won it back since.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #175
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    Wow. That's the most easy win of them all then. Hardly worth naming it a win at all.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  26. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He's won it back since.
    By promising everything to everyone (without ever producing a coherent plan for accomplishing those things) and "standing up" to the EU and bad Tories? Trump would be proud.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  27. #177
    Mark Fields continues to be one of the creepiest most contemptible MPs:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  28. #178
    He has apologised, said he thought she was a threat.

    In the UK we have sadly had an MP murdered, we have recently had a spate of assaults recently on politicians by left wing protestors with a suggestion on the BBC (pre-recorded not live so considered fair to broadcast) to throw battery acid at politicians. Someone breaches security and heads to potentially attack the Chancellor, could easily have had a knife and he has escorted her out roughly.

    In the US she could have been shot. At least we aren't talking about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  29. #179
    My ass he thought she was a threat.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #180
    Let sleeping tigers lie Khendraja'aro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He has apologised, said he thought she was a threat.
    You obviously didn't even watch the video. Yeah, someone walking by you is a sure-fire sign of a "threat".
    When the stars threw down their spears
    And watered heaven with their tears:
    Did he smile his work to see?
    Did he who made the lamb make thee?

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