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Thread: May's out. Who's in?

  1. #241
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    So do I understand correctly Boris doesn't believe in scrutiny of leadership candidates?
    Congratulations America

  2. #242
    Neither do English Tories, apparently.
    "One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Don't think this is a weak response to adversity so much as it is strategic leveraging of strength in a dysfunctional political system. Johnson can only be harmed by scrutiny and debate. He's using Trump's (and Bannon's) playbook, and the British counterparts of American Trumpists are loving it
    It's got absolutely nothing to do with Trump. Trump did all the debates in America didn't he? And he was challenger not favourite.


    There is a very long-established British tradition that the front-runner in the election declines debates. Debates are a rarity.


    The only General Election in our entire history that has had a full amount of debates was 2010.

    I don't agree with Boris here and won't defend it. But he is following a very British tradition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    It's got absolutely nothing to do with Trump. Trump did all the debates in America didn't he? And he was challenger not favourite.


    There is a very long-established British tradition that the front-runner in the election declines debates. Debates are a rarity.


    The only General Election in our entire history that has had a full amount of debates was 2010.

    I don't agree with Boris here and won't defend it. But he is following a very British tradition.
    Even if you accept this (rather feeble) justification, simply failing to respond to the invitation from ITV is amateurish. Most leaders who've pulled this in the past at least own their decision, not just... pretend it isn't happening.
    When the sky above us fell
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  5. #245
    Foolish peasant! Why would Johnson need to answer questions, the post is his by divine right.
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  6. #246
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  7. #247
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    Should we put money on how long Boris will stay in office?
    Congratulations America

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    Should we put money on how long Boris will stay in office?
    Please clarify - in office after becoming PM, or stuck in his office, hiding from anyone trying to ask him a question on camera?
    There's a man goin' 'round, takin' names
    And he decides who to free and who to blame

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Even if you accept this (rather feeble) justification, simply failing to respond to the invitation from ITV is amateurish. Most leaders who've pulled this in the past at least own their decision, not just... pretend it isn't happening.
    I said I don't agree with it and I'm not justifying it FWIW. Just correcting Aimless that it is nothing to do with Trump and entirely standard in this country for the favourite to reject debates.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #250
    What's this line about failing to respond to ITV's invitation?

    ITV's debate has already been agreed by all parties and announced as the first debate. Given it's been confirmed by both parties and announced by ITV this seems confusing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  11. #251
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48752222

    Ok, so bearing in mind that speech often doesn't come across well when transcribed to the written word, but allowing for that... what the actual fuck is wrong with this man?
    Last edited by Steely Glint; 06-24-2019 at 11:37 PM.
    When the sky above us fell
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  12. #252
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    What's this line about failing to respond to ITV's invitation?

    ITV's debate has already been agreed by all parties and announced as the first debate. Given it's been confirmed by both parties and announced by ITV this seems confusing.
    I mean Sky, not ITV: https://www.manchestereveningnews.co...ebate-16476997

    After two weeks of secret voting by Tory MPs to whittle down the race, Conservative members are soon to vote for their favourite of the two to become the next Party leader and prime minister.

    Although Boris hasn't confirmed his attendance, Mr Hunt has agreed, leaving Sky News on standby.


    A Sky spokesman said: "We stand ready to host a debate tomorrow evening if both candidates make themselves available.


    "Without both candidates, tomorrow's debate will not take place."


    This was what was being reported around lunch time today, at some point the wording seems to have morphed into "has so far declined", so I don't know if that means he ever actually got back to them or it just go so late that they decided he wasn't going to turn up. Unprofessional and childish either way.

    Compare to when May refused to participate in the debates during the 2017 election, https://www.theguardian.com/politics...efore-election

    “Our answer is no,” a No 10 source told the Guardian when asked about whether the prime minister would join any TV debates before the 8 June election.

    A Conservative party spokesman said there was no need for the public to see May face off against Jeremy Corbyn. “The choice at this election is already clear: strong and stable leadership in the national interest with Theresa May and the Conservatives, or weak and unstable coalition government led by Jeremy Corbyn,” the spokesman said.
    Confirmed well ahead of time. Gave a reason, which while not good or convincing and was in fact rather pathetic, was at least firmly stated so it at least looked like they had confidence in their decision, which is more than Johnson managed.

    It's weird that no one his team managed to get out a statement like that on his behalf, it's boilerplate stuff. Maybe he hadn't even bothered to communicate to them what he was going to do? Maybe he'll turn up at Sky News tomorrow evening, and wonder why there's no one at the studio?
    When the sky above us fell
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  13. #253
    He has responded to the Sky News debate. The date for it was declined out of respect to ITV having had both parties agree that ITV would host the first debate (which was announced to be the first debate) Sky then proposed theirs on an earlier date before ITVs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  14. #254
    Hunt didn't realise it seems when they agreed to the date of the first debate to be held on ITV that it would be the day after ballot papers are sent out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  15. #255
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    Oh my God. The conservatives are being sold a pup and they are totally unaware of the fact. Boris is going to 'negotiate' the financial settlement and of course will get a lower amount quoted. This is because staying in after the 29th of March already means there is less left to be settled. It could easily be €10bn less by the time of Brexit. And then negotiating the backstop during the implementation period simply means accepting the withdrawal agreement.
    Congratulations America

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Unheard Of View Post
    Please clarify - in office after becoming PM, or stuck in his office, hiding from anyone trying to ask him a question on camera?
    Hey, if he never shows up, maybe he can't be removed.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  17. #257
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    I still wonder who actually wants a habitual liar for their PM.
    Congratulations America

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    I still wonder who actually wants a habitual liar for their PM.
    The people who want to here the lies he tells.

    It was amusing to listen to Jeremy Hunt on the radio on the way home tonight, talking about the technology that's apparently going to solve the Irish border issue, when he said "In a decade, we won't be doing any checks at borders" or something to that effect, letting slip a realistic time frame for actually implementing they kind of technology they'll need to make the Irish Border frictionless and still have customs checks etc.

    Then had to backtrack when the interviewer pointed out that Brexit is happening a few months, not 10 years, he was all like "no no it exists now", ok dude, maybe it exists on paper but so does fusion power, and solar sails but we're not using them to get out to the belt nor are we powering cities with fusion power - there is some distance between a theoretical idea an actual, working implementation.

    These people know full well they're chatting shit.

    In other Scumbagology news, Farage is going around loudly telling everyone that Boris Johnson does in fact speak to Steve Bannon. This piece of information could only possibly hurt Johnson, and Johnson is probably the most realistic chance of achieving his objective of a hard Brexit, so I don't know what his game plan is? Maybe he wants Brexit to not happen under a Tory government, so he can gain votes at the next General Election at the expense of the Tories? Maybe he's in some kind of inter-scumbag feud with Boris?
    When the sky above us fell
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  19. #259
    Farage is only interested in Farage. He is an egotist and he wants the attention on him.

    Don't forget Boris marginalised Farage at the referendum. Boris and Vote Leave said that Farage was too toxic and they didn't want him anywhere near them in order to get Brexit . . . which worked. They're not exactly colleagues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Farage is only interested in Farage. He is an egotist and he wants the attention on him.

    Don't forget Boris marginalised Farage at the referendum. Boris and Vote Leave said that Farage was too toxic and they didn't want him anywhere near them in order to get Brexit . . . which worked. They're not exactly colleagues.
    That's rich coming from someone who is supporting the most self-important torycrat for the position of PM. I fully understand that you rather not deal with this through an actual election as then both of them wouldn't have a chance of being elected.
    Congratulations America

  21. #261
    Actually I think there could be a General Election in September/October. Probably a 40% chance I'd say.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #262
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    And then?
    Congratulations America

  23. #263
    There's about zero chance any Tory leader or really, any prime minister, will voluntarily call a snap election at this point. Not after the Lesson of Theresa May.

    Only way we'll get a GE before '22 is through no-confidence. Which, to be fair, is not unlikely.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  24. #264
    Could be better to jump before being pushed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  25. #265
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    And then?
    If Labour manages to scrap together a majority, they can actually try something to resolve the impasse the Tories aren't prepared to do, which is join the customs union.

    One of the problems May faced is that too many MPs thought there was a better outcome for Brexit (depending on the faction this was either a hard Brexit, another referendum, forcing a general election, a magic unicorn and fairies Brexit where the EU just suddenly gives up all it's negotiating positions for no reason or what have you) just around the corner if they frustrated May's deal.

    Labour should be able to put a more unified front behind a deal based on a customs union, and the EU would probably agree to it, so provided the Lib Dems (who Labour would be in government with unless the polls change drastically) decide to be assholes and hold out for a second referendum, which the probably wouldn't do, that would actually get through parliament in those circumstances.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  26. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    If Labour manages to scrap together a majority, they can actually try something to resolve the impasse the Tories aren't prepared to do, which is join the customs union.

    One of the problems May faced is that too many MPs thought there was a better outcome for Brexit (depending on the faction this was either a hard Brexit, another referendum, forcing a general election, a magic unicorn and fairies Brexit where the EU just suddenly gives up all it's negotiating positions for no reason or what have you) just around the corner if they frustrated May's deal.

    Labour should be able to put a more unified front behind a deal based on a customs union, and the EU would probably agree to it, so provided the Lib Dems (who Labour would be in government with unless the polls change drastically) decide to be assholes and hold out for a second referendum, which the probably wouldn't do, that would actually get through parliament in those circumstances.
    Too easy. Every step of the way here you guys have been making things harder for you (and everyone else) than they should be and I don't think that would stop with a Labour majority. I don't buy that the dysfunction is all on the Tories or points further right. The farce must go on!
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  27. #267
    If Labour wanted to take No Deal off the table they could have ratified the deal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #268
    While I appreciate the attempt to Both Sides all over politics on this side of the pond as well, the reality is this: the Tories could have gotten either no deal or May's deal through if they'd actually been able to agree on either of those options, Labour couldn't have done a damn thing to stop them. The truth is they didn't do that because both of those things are a Bad Idea, but they can't quite bring themselves to accept a very simple truth, Brexit itself was a Bad Idea and the entire pitch of Leave during the referendum was was total horseshit. So, they tie themselves in knots trying to come up with a third way that doesn't exist, hence the continuing farce.

    I do not dismiss the possibility that Corbyn could come up with an entirely new and previously unseen form of farce (he has form, here, re: antisemitism), but on the face of it going for a customs union is a fairly straight forward resolution available to anyone not wedded to the idea of Brexit.
    When the sky above us fell
    We descended into hell
    Into kingdom come

  29. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    While I appreciate the attempt to Both Sides all over politics on this side of the pond as well, the reality is this: the Tories could have gotten either no deal or May's deal through if they'd actually been able to agree on either of those options, Labour couldn't have done a damn thing to stop them. The truth is they didn't do that because both of those things are a Bad Idea, but they can't quite bring themselves to accept a very simple truth, Brexit itself was a Bad Idea and the entire pitch of Leave during the referendum was was total horseshit. So, they tie themselves in knots trying to come up with a third way that doesn't exist, hence the continuing farce.

    I do not dismiss the possibility that Corbyn could come up with an entirely new and previously unseen form of farce (he has form, here, re: antisemitism), but on the face of it going for a customs union is a fairly straight forward resolution available to anyone not wedded to the idea of Brexit.
    If it was just the Tories inability to accomplish a damn thing, I wouldn't have made the comment. But unfortunately it wasn't. The British public has demonstrated that they're not any more coherent multiple times now. You're a democracy. I see the problems with your government as a symptom of your problems as an electorate. And as such, swapping out the parties isn't going to improve things, it's just going make them go wrong with entirely new splits.

    At this point, what the EU ought to do is just call it quits, prep for the Hard Brexit and say "good riddance." Even if Labor or whomever manages to approve and ratify a deal (or some kind of non-Brexit) that the EU would find acceptable, it's just going to come with continued pain from trying to deal with the UK in general.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  30. #270
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    Gosh.
    Congratulations America

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