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Thread: The Impeachment of President Trump

  1. #241
    This man is trash:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  2. #242
    I can feel the depletion of brain cells just listening to that incoherent rambling.

  3. #243
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Are you saying pressuring a foreign leader to undertake a corruption investigation is the same as starting a war?

    Also why was his hair worse back then?

    Meanwhile, in Blast From the Past Town...

    Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D., N.Y.) speaking at a House Judiciary Committee hearing Dec. 10, 1998:

    The effect of impeachment is to overturn the popular will of the voters as expressed in a national election. We must not overturn an election and remove a president from office except to defend our very system of government or our constitutional liberties against a dire threat. And we must not do so without an overwhelming consensus of the American people and of their representatives in Congress of the absolute necessity.

    There must never be a narrowly voted impeachment or an impeachment substantially supported by one of our major political parties and largely opposed by the other. Such an impeachment would lack legitimacy, would produce divisiveness and bitterness in our politics for years to come. And will call into question the very legitimacy of our political institutions.

    The American people have heard all the allegations against the president, and they overwhelmingly oppose impeaching him. The people elected the president, they still support him. We have no right to overturn the considered judgment of the American people. There are clearly some members of the Republican majority who have never accepted the results of the 1992 or 1996 elections and who apparently have chosen to ignore the message of last month’s election. But in a democracy, it is the people who rule, not political elites, and certainly not those members of political elites who will not be here in the next election and the next Congress having been repudiated at the polls. Some members of this committee may think the people have chosen badly; but it is the people’s choice and we must respect it absent the fundamental threat to our democratic form of government that would justify overturning the repeated expression of the people’s will at the ballot box.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/notable...nt-11576713857

  4. #244
    You didn't read the whole article, did you.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  5. #245
    Is there a statute of limitation on getting articles of impeachment to the senate?
    .

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Is there a statute of limitation on getting articles of impeachment to the senate?
    Constitutionally, the House voting on impeachment means he's been impeached and the Senate has sole responsibility for running a trial. There's no requirement that the House "transmit" this vote; the vote is the impeachment. The Senate established internal rules for having an impeachment manager from the House but those rules can be overturned.

    Pelosi and Schumer seem convinced they can turn this into an overwrought censure vote and then maybe delay until closer to the election.

  7. #247
    It becomes increasingly clear that the Democrats are doing this only for 2020 election purposes. They know removal isn't going to happen. If Trump wins re-election it will be such sweet irony that Pelosi did it by pushing forward with this impeachment nonsense.

  8. #248
    So the house can hold off until after the election. Then, if Trump is reelected and dems make gains in the senate, the house can pass the articles of impeachment to the senate. Brilliant!
    .

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    So the house can hold off until after the election. Then, if Trump is reelected and dems make gains in the senate, the house can pass the articles of impeachment to the senate. Brilliant!
    1. You can always be impeached twice so there really is no need to hold off.

    2. Even if Dems win the senate they aren't going to get 2/3rds.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Being View Post
    Is there a statute of limitation on getting articles of impeachment to the senate?
    Yes, whatever the Senate cares to say it is. More practically, I don't think there's generally carry-over from one Congress to the next for issues submitted for consideration by the other house but I could be wrong on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    It becomes increasingly clear that the Democrats are doing this only for 2020 election purposes. They know removal isn't going to happen. If Trump wins re-election it will be such sweet irony that Pelosi did it by pushing forward with this impeachment nonsense.
    No, they did it because they were thoroughly outraged by Trump and could not hold themselves back from doing it even though it was probably going to hurt them a bit in 2020. Having gone ahead and done it, they may be trying to manage things to mitigate how much damage it does to them though.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    I know - can you imagine a solid majority that regularly insists that the 1st and 2nd amendment rights be protected? Crazy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    If Trump wins re-election it will be such sweet irony that Pelosi did it by pushing forward with this impeachment nonsense.
    The impeachment clause was written into the constitution and predates any amendments.

  12. #252
    Patience is a virtue:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #253
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #254
    Federal watchdog finds OMB violated law by withholding Ukraine aid

    "Faithful execution of the law does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA."

    — GAO report

    https://www.axios.com/gao-decision-omb-trump-ukraine-aid-2aab62ea-2e50-4301-bae7-afa5a88282ee.html


    https://budget.house.gov/publication...does-it-matter

  15. #255
    Just leaving this here for your pleasure:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  16. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Just leaving this here for your pleasure:

    Doesn't exist.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  17. #257
    Hehehehe

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #258
    Humiliated coward tries to get ahead of the news of his merciless shaming:

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  19. #259
    https://thefederalist.com/2020/01/25...n-soap-operas/

    lol

    "The lack of viewership for the Senate impeachment trial illustrates a public understanding of what a show trial the proceedings have become. In other words, Americans recognize the difference between performative actions full of useless bravado and events where major outcomes may result, such as the Kavanaugh hearings.

    Democrats need at least 20 Republican senators to vote in favor of a guilty verdict, an event which is certain not to happen, given public support for impeachment has remained underwater for more than a month, according to Real Clear Politics’ latest aggregate of polls."

  20. #260
    You realize the GOP is in charge of this "show trial", right? Interesting admission there.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  21. #261
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    You realize the GOP is in charge of this "show trial", right? Interesting admission there.
    Is it an interesting admission? Because the entire thing has been a farce from the beginning with the result already predetermined.

  22. #262
    Maybe the GOP should take its constitutional duties a bit more seriously and not put on a show trial...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  23. #263
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    Federal watchdog finds OMB violated law by withholding Ukraine aid

    "Faithful execution of the law does not permit the president to substitute his own policy priorities for those that Congress has enacted into law. OMB withheld funds for a policy reason, which is not permitted under the Impoundment Control Act (ICA). The withholding was not a programmatic delay. Therefore, we conclude that OMB violated the ICA."

    — GAO report

    https://www.axios.com/gao-decision-omb-trump-ukraine-aid-2aab62ea-2e50-4301-bae7-afa5a88282ee.html


    https://budget.house.gov/publication...does-it-matter
    Next at 10: Legislative office claims that executive office did not fulfill intent of legislation; legislative branch expounds on supremacy of legislative branch.

    We've seen this story with the GAO lots of times over the years. The timing of this "finding" weirds me out.

  24. #264
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Next at 10: Legislative office claims that executive office did not fulfill intent of legislation; legislative branch expounds on supremacy of legislative branch.

    We've seen this story with the GAO lots of times over the years. The timing of this "finding" weirds me out.
    Gramps, before you descend into full Q-Anon conspiracy mode, please consider the possibility that 1. the actions Trump & co. took wrt withholding the authorized aid were indeed in conflict with the law (as was suspected by people who were involved with the process from beginning to end, judging from their emails to one another), and 2. the "timing" reflects the time it took for this business to be uncovered, end up passing legally defined deadlines, and then be investigated despite the admin's efforts to obstruct investigation. If the admin had cooperated, perhaps the finding would have come sooner. If the admin had been more skilled in its obstruction, perhaps the finding would have come later. If the admin had been busted sooner, perhaps the finding would have come sooner. If the admin had been busted later, perhaps the finding would have come later. That this decision appears to to coincide with the impeachment trial isn't strange given that it concerns the very matter that provoked impeachment in the first place.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  25. #265

  26. #266
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Gramps, before you descend into full Q-Anon conspiracy mode, please consider the possibility that 1. the actions Trump & co. took wrt withholding the authorized aid were indeed in conflict with the law (as was suspected by people who were involved with the process from beginning to end, judging from their emails to one another), and 2. the "timing" reflects the time it took for this business to be uncovered, end up passing legally defined deadlines, and then be investigated despite the admin's efforts to obstruct investigation. If the admin had cooperated, perhaps the finding would have come sooner. If the admin had been more skilled in its obstruction, perhaps the finding would have come later. If the admin had been busted sooner, perhaps the finding would have come sooner. If the admin had been busted later, perhaps the finding would have come later. That this decision appears to to coincide with the impeachment trial isn't strange given that it concerns the very matter that provoked impeachment in the first place.
    I'd encourage you to look at this through the lens of public choice theory, and recall that the US government has a distinct separation of powers that is always finding a slightly new center of equilibrium. But the legislative branch does not produce final determinations of legal breaches.

    Within some limits, the GAO will produce a finding that is asked of it by its Congressional overseers. A staff lawyer's opinion for a branch of any bureaucracy is not settled law. Only judicial opinions matter.

  27. #267
    Is that you, Dershowitz?
    Hope is the denial of reality

  28. #268
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I'd encourage you to look at this through the lens of public choice theory, and recall that the US government has a distinct separation of powers that is always finding a slightly new center of equilibrium. But the legislative branch does not produce final determinations of legal breaches.

    Within some limits, the GAO will produce a finding that is asked of it by its Congressional overseers. A staff lawyer's opinion for a branch of any bureaucracy is not settled law. Only judicial opinions matter.
    Sounds like you're on board with the GOP's tactics to defend Trump during the impeachment process:

    The president can't be indicted for a crime while in office....so congress can't investigate potential crimes as part of their oversight.
    Executive powers supersede congressional oversight, including impeachment proceedings....so they can ignore subpoenas for documents and witnesses.
    Trump didn't do anything illegal...but even if he did, it's not an impeachable offense.
    Even tho he's been impeached by the house, the senate should treat the whole thing as a witch hunt hoax....perpetrated by teh libruls.

    You talk about separation of powers, and a new center of equilibrium, but can't see how the GOP is creating a really bad precedent for future presidents?

  29. #269
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    I'd encourage you to look at this through the lens of public choice theory, and recall that the US government has a distinct separation of powers that is always finding a slightly new center of equilibrium. But the legislative branch does not produce final determinations of legal breaches.

    Within some limits, the GAO will produce a finding that is asked of it by its Congressional overseers. A staff lawyer's opinion for a branch of any bureaucracy is not settled law. Only judicial opinions matter.
    No, they don't. Judicial opinions won't matter until the criminal trial, and that doesn't happen until Trump leaves office. Right now, only the legislature's opinion matters.

  30. #270
    I tried to find intelligent life on Earth. But after seeing politicians, I acknowledge I failed miserably.
    Historians will see the 2010s as a prank. Tragedy turned into comedy.
    The age when gossip is the new truth, and not liking someone makes that person evil.
    It is a time of entitled idiocy.
    Freedom - When people learn to embrace criticism about politicians, since politicians are just employees like you and me.

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