The Impeachment of President Trump

[EyeKhan]

That's in the general public. I think the Senators aren't so detached from reality, they're more cynical self-serving bastards than uneducated idiots. As the impeachment goes forward I expect the support for impeachment/conviction to climb in the public and it'll become more dangerous not to vote for it. Trump's impeachment already has more public support than Nixon's did, and history is pretty unequivocal about that being the right thing to do.

Republican Senators follow the money, and the votes. And based on the latest polling, see link, it's looking like even Republican voters are turning on Trump. This may be it.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...publicans.html

You truly have to be a fucking head-up-your-ass idiot to think this president isn't a criminal that is totally fucking this country over. So, looks like we're starting to see which Republican voters fit that description, and which do not. Or are we starting to see pundits, who these voters take their direction from, starting to see the Traitor president as too harmful to continue supporting? In other words, is real news leaking/ being let into their propaganda bubbles?

[Aimless]

This is a perverted stag hunt, with the stag being lost honour and courage, and the hunters being a gang of morally bankrupt chancers shackled by fear and shame. I agree with commentators who believe that Trump will either be convicted with an overwhelming majority, or not be convicted at all. I'm not sure we can expect to see a gradual rise in support--among the Senate GOP conference--for conviction. Popular support for impeachment is not as strong a motivator as one might expect, given the quirks of the American electoral system. After all, Trump won despite a massive disadvantage in the popular vote, and, despite being historically unpopular throughout his reign tenure, Republican Senators have bent the knee and let him pee all over them over and over again. They perceive their base as being all in on Trump, and are not yet convinced that that base is shrinking for every month, even as those who remain in it grow ever more fanatical. This is a prison of their own making, of course--their anti-democratic shenanigans over the last couple of decades have made them politically vulnerable to being taken hostage by small numbers of vocal and active political extremists in their respective constituencies.

[Wraith]

The electoral system doesn't matter here. This is about Congress now, and they don't have an electoral college.

Trump has an energetic base that has proven itself to be easy to mobilize against anyone who goes against him. It's seen as a powerful voting bloc, and most Republicans have been afraid of pissing them off, as a number of other Republicans who have were replaced in primaries. Even the Democrats are wary of them, which is why Pelosi has put off impeachment for so long - they're afraid of rallying Trump supporters against them. Team > Country all around. There aren't a ton of Republican held seats that are safe from the Trumpets, Romney has one of the few. On the other hand, a lot of the Republicans have chafed under Trump, and have only bent the knee reluctantly. The ones that are truly loyal are generally just the ones that won their seat on the basis of their unwavering support for Trump. Once it's demonstrated that the Trumpets aren't as powerful as they once were, I think there's a good chance for a full party rebellion against him, as a lot of Republicans will be eager to try to distance themselves from him so they can say they weren't complicit in his corruption during the next election.

[Aimless]

The electoral system doesn't matter here. This is about Congress now, and they don't have an electoral college.

There is a consistent disparity between share of the popular vote and degree of representation in Congress, generally favouring Republicans. The opinion polls we're seeing now, indicating popular support for impeachment, cannot be used to motivate any individual Senator or Representative--the results are not obviously generalizable to their individual constituencies. State-level polls would be more compelling, for Senators.

Trump has an energetic base that has proven itself to be easy to mobilize against anyone who goes against him. It's seen as a powerful voting bloc, and most Republicans have been afraid of pissing them off, as a number of other Republicans who have were replaced in primaries. Even the Democrats are wary of them, which is why Pelosi has put off impeachment for so long - they're afraid of rallying Trump supporters against them. Team > Country all around. There aren't a ton of Republican held seats that are safe from the Trumpets, Romney has one of the few. On the other hand, a lot of the Republicans have chafed under Trump, and have only bent the knee reluctantly. The ones that are truly loyal are generally just the ones that won their seat on the basis of their unwavering support for Trump. Once it's demonstrated that the Trumpets aren't as powerful as they once were, I think there's a good chance for a full party rebellion against him, as a lot of Republicans will be eager to try to distance themselves from him so they can say they weren't complicit in his corruption during the next election.

Trump's core constituency is--at most--a third of Americans of voting age. It's been about that size for a long time. That this small contingent has such a disproportionately strong hold on Republican legislators is a symptom of electoral and political dysfunction, but, more importantly, it's an indicator of the political calculus that Republican legislators have to work with. It's possible that their power has been imaginary, but it's more plausible that Republican congressmen have an entirely justified fear of the social and financial consequences they will personally suffer if they turn on Trump and he isn't convicted. Romney must show that a sufficiently large number of Senators will convict Trump--if he can't, most will likely be too afraid to do anything, and their inaction will strengthen Trump and make future action much more difficult. All of this places a truly extraordinary investigative burden on the House, to uncover misconduct so deeply corrupt and so utterly inimical to the US's security interests that even Republican Senators will be compelled--whether by fear or by shame--to convict him. The Senate will not contribute to such an investigation, and leading GOP Senators (McConnell, Graham) already look poised to sabotage it.

[LittleFuzzy]

What's ironic is that earlier today liberals were blasting Trump for threatening our "NATO ally" as another example of Trump being unhinged. It doesn't matter what Trump does he's going to get flak for it.

He is. Because interstate relations generally calls for moderation and Trump likes grandiose extremes. It's perfectly reasonable and acceptable for us to object to him both ignoring/allowing bad behavior and to him doing things like threatening to use nuclear weapons in warning against bad behavior.

[Aimless]

Truly the King of Trolls!

What's ironic is that earlier today liberals were blasting Trump for threatening our "NATO ally" as another example of Trump being unhinged. It doesn't matter what Trump does he's going to get flak for it.

That said - I think Trump has badly misplayed his hand here. Turkey not respecting our desires here should bring about heavy consequences for Erdogan who is a colossal piece of shit. I'd love to see Trump actually push hard for the expulsion of Turkey from NATO over this. They've already been in violation of the basic charter required of NATO countries for years.

Everything about your response is stupid. It's not hilarious trolling when the President of the US announces major foreign policy decisions of great geopolitical and natsec significance on Twitter, without appropriate consultation and debate--or even warning--because he got bent over a barrel by a more shrewd autocrat; it's actually just stupid and dangerous, and it's stupid of you to focus on the trolling while ignoring the broader significance. Also stupid is your asinine "damned if you do, damned if you don't" analysis; this is an entirely unforced crisis directly resulting from Trump getting rolled by Erdogan. Had he not made this decision, and announced it in the manner that he did, the outcome would not have been the same. Moreover, Trump's tweets are objectively unhinged, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise. Finally, it is stupid to further weaken NATO at a time when Russia has gotten a number of profoundly frightening wins, and it is genuinely stupid to applaud the prospect of such self-inflicted wounds. Even more stupid because Turkey will indeed do great harm to the Kurds without suffering any major consequences, certainly not any major financial consequences. But Trump will have weakened NATO either way, just as he looks set to weaken other important partnerships such as the Open Skies treaty. Russia benefits. Turkey benefits. The US loses. You're a very stupid man, Lewk, and your stupidity is of the saddest variety--not constitutional or caused by illness, but willfully cultivated, for pathetic social reasons, by a coward who's confident in the knowledge that he will be sheltered from any negative consequences of his stupidity. Get bent, you fucking poser.

[EyeKhan]

Everything about your response is stupid. It's not hilarious trolling when the President of the US announces major foreign policy decisions of great geopolitical and natsec significance on Twitter, without appropriate consultation and debate--or even warning--because he got bent over a barrel by a more shrewd autocrat; it's actually just stupid and dangerous, and it's stupid of you to focus on the trolling while ignoring the broader significance. Also stupid is your asinine "damned if you do, damned if you don't" analysis; this is an entirely unforced crisis directly resulting from Trump getting rolled by Erdogan. Had he not made this decision, and announced it in the manner that he did, the outcome would not have been the same. Moreover, Trump's tweets are objectively unhinged, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise. Finally, it is stupid to further weaken NATO at a time when Russia has gotten a number of profoundly frightening wins, and it is genuinely stupid to applaud the prospect of such self-inflicted wounds. Even more stupid because Turkey will indeed do great harm to the Kurds without suffering any major consequences, certainly not any major financial consequences. But Trump will have weakened NATO either way, just as he looks set to weaken other important partnerships such as the Open Skies treaty. Russia benefits. Turkey benefits. The US loses. You're a very stupid man, Lewk, and your stupidity is of the saddest variety--not constitutional or caused by illness, but willfully cultivated, for pathetic social reasons, by a coward who's confident in the knowledge that he will be sheltered from any negative consequences of his stupidity. Get bent, you fucking poser.

Wow. Uh, lol.

[Lewkowski]

Everything about your response is stupid. It's not hilarious trolling when the President of the US announces major foreign policy decisions of great geopolitical and natsec significance on Twitter, without appropriate consultation and debate--or even warning--because he got bent over a barrel by a more shrewd autocrat; it's actually just stupid and dangerous, and it's stupid of you to focus on the trolling while ignoring the broader significance. Also stupid is your asinine "damned if you do, damned if you don't" analysis; this is an entirely unforced crisis directly resulting from Trump getting rolled by Erdogan. Had he not made this decision, and announced it in the manner that he did, the outcome would not have been the same. Moreover, Trump's tweets are objectively unhinged, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise. Finally, it is stupid to further weaken NATO at a time when Russia has gotten a number of profoundly frightening wins, and it is genuinely stupid to applaud the prospect of such self-inflicted wounds. Even more stupid because Turkey will indeed do great harm to the Kurds without suffering any major consequences, certainly not any major financial consequences. But Trump will have weakened NATO either way, just as he looks set to weaken other important partnerships such as the Open Skies treaty. Russia benefits. Turkey benefits. The US loses. You're a very stupid man, Lewk, and your stupidity is of the saddest variety--not constitutional or caused by illness, but willfully cultivated, for pathetic social reasons, by a coward who's confident in the knowledge that he will be sheltered from any negative consequences of his stupidity. Get bent, you fucking poser.

All I heard is REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

This Russia boogeyman nonsense is asinine. Even pussy Europe could take Russia in a conventional warfare fight, and if nukes are played its still MAD.

[Aimless]

Like I said, you're a very, very stupid man. I stand by this assessment.

[Wraith]

Majority of public now want Trump impeached and removed from office. Comeon, hurry up and make it happen!

[EyeKhan]

And President Dumb Fuck justified betraying the Syrian Kurds because they DIDN'T HELP US IN WW2 AT NORMANDY.

What. The. Flying. Fuck.

Ignorance IS a fucking PROBLEM for a President. He has no business as this nation's chief executive. What a fucking disaster this man is.

[Aimless]

And President Dumb Fuck justified betraying the Syrian Kurds because they DIDN'T HELP US IN WW2 AT NORMANDY.

What. The. Flying. Fuck.

Ignorance IS a fucking PROBLEM for a President. He has no business as this nation's chief executive. What a fucking disaster this man is.

Alliances are easy.

[Aimless]

And President Dumb Fuck justified betraying the Syrian Kurds because they DIDN'T HELP US IN WW2 AT NORMANDY.

What. The. Flying. Fuck.

Ignorance IS a fucking PROBLEM for a President. He has no business as this nation's chief executive. What a fucking disaster this man is.

Just for the record, this particular bit of nonsense went straight into Trump's mouth from the rancid ass of Kurt Schlichter, basically a man who gets paid to be Lewk in public.

[Steely Glint]

And President Dumb Fuck justified betraying the Syrian Kurds because they DIDN'T HELP US IN WW2 AT NORMANDY.

Bad news for Israel.

[wiggin]

Bad news for Israel.

This entire presidency has been bad news for Israel.

[Wraith]

Has it been good for anyone other than Putin and Erdogan?

[Aimless]

China always benefits.

Meanwhile, interesting twist in the Turkey story:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-doj-charges

Hilarious twist on the ongoing story about Lindsey Graham's forked tongue: https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...ax-call-043991

[GGT]

The problem with "Impeach and Remove" is that VP Pense would become POTUS....

Does anyone know if being Impeached and removed from office precludes Trump from running in 2020 anyway?

[Loki]

One of the potential punishments for high crimes and misdemeanors is a ban from holding any public office. But it's not a required punishment.

[GGT]

So....Trump could feasibly be Impeached and Removed from Office, but still be the (R) nominee for POTUS in 2020?

Well then, it's up to (R) to get a spine. Any hope they'll put country before party?

[Loki]

It would be politically dumb for Republicans to royally anger Trump by kicking him out of office and then giving him an opportunity to get back at them by letting him run in 2020.

[GGT]

True. The GOP wasn't the beacon of morality or ethics when they nominated Trump in the primaries, but they did win the presidency. Party before country, power trumps principle.

[Steely Glint]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ry-fire-syria/

Fuck me.

[Steely Glint]

Oh. and the Kurds have now called in Assad to stop the Turkish advance. So that's good.

[Aimless]

This is both stupid, repugnant and insane. A devastating assault on the US's security and its broader interests, perpetrated right out in the open.

[Hazir]

Oh. and the Kurds have now called in Assad to stop the Turkish advance. So that's good.

I wonder if the Israeli's were so upset with Trump because they foresaw this.

[Loki]

My question is what happens next time the 100% defeated ISIS carries out a terrorist attack in the West.

[GGT]

Trump's foreign and military "policies" are horrible, but not necessarily Impeachable Offenses. Correct me if that's wrong.

My question: WHY are Republicans pushing the narrative that the Impeachment process is an illegal, unconstitutional "coup"?

[Aimless]

My question is what happens next time the 100% defeated ISIS carries out a terrorist attack in the West.

No more asylum.

[Aimless]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/w...asion-isis.htm