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Thread: UK General Election 12 December

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    You did something stupid that does have some consequences. The most obvious consequence of the stupid thing you did was that you helped waste money—some of which is yours—on 29 useless or downright harmful MEPs. As a protest vote, your vote has had no positive effect on your position in the Brexit negotiations or Brexit process; had you voted for productive and competent MEPs, you would've increased the likelihood of at least someone getting value for money for the duration of their tenure, however short or long that may prove to be.
    It also gave creedence and validity to the BXP in their first attempt at elections. A party that could be very damaging for the Tories in this GE. Brexit voters who wanted a different version of Johnson's Brexit will have nowhere else to go.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    It also gave creedence and validity to the BXP in their first attempt at elections. A party that could be very damaging for the Tories in this GE. Brexit voters who wanted a different version of Johnson's Brexit will have nowhere else to go.
    Exactly. I was about to write exactly that.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    It also gave creedence and validity to the BXP in their first attempt at elections. A party that could be very damaging for the Tories in this GE. Brexit voters who wanted a different version of Johnson's Brexit will have nowhere else to go.
    Often not a great idea to encourage political vandalism and nihilism. Short-term gains come at a long-term cost in terms of lost credibility, reduced ability to govern effectively, and major political constraints.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  4. #34
    If you're a Tory Leaver, I think voting Brexit party is a great move. Especially if you're in a marginal Tory/Lab or Tory/Lib constituency (or else it's just a symbolic gesture).

    Randblade, you should vote for the Brexit party again. That was a really smart move last time and it could work again. The Tories are only pursuing the line they are now because their electoral position is so fragile. If they come back with a large majority, where's the incentive for them to really push for Brexit? They could spin it out indefinitely. We could still be doing Brexit by the time your grandchildren are old enough to vote.

    Johnson already broke his promise in leave on the 31st come hell or high water, and he could do so again. He needs to be disciplined.
    Why do we build the wall, my children, my children? We build the wall to keep us free.
    How does the wall keep us free, my children, my children? The wall keeps out the enemy. And we build the wall to keep us free.
    Who do we call the enemy, my children, my children? The enemy is poverty. And the wall keeps out the enemy. And we build the wall to keep us free.
    That's why we build the wall. We build the wall to keep us free. Because we have and they have not, my children, my my children. Because they want what we have got.
    What do we have that they should want, my children, my children? We have a wall to work upon. We have work and they have none. And our work is never done. And the war is never won.
    The enemy is poverty, the wall keeps out the enemy, and we build the wall to keep us free. That's why we build the wall, we build the wall to keep us free.

  5. #35
    Can you imagine how upset Brexiteers would be if May pulled her deal away from parliament after it had been voted for a second reading?

    Brexit blocking stuff at its finest. The treacherous remoaner mutineer.

  6. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    No. He's a Brexiteer but so is a majority of the country and about two thirds of Tories.

    Besides Brexit he's a very moderate modern Tory.
    He's moderate to the extent that he has no ideology or morals and will do or say absolutely anything to get in power or stay there. The man is an imbecile and a pathological liar. He'll happily watch his country burn if it serves his personal interests. He's pissed off his own family members, who, unlike Boris, actually have a solid reputation. He is corrupt, uninterested in following the law, and is generally an awful human being. If you think that represents the Conservative Party, that says more about the Conservative Parry that it does about Johnson's moderation.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    He's moderate to the extent that he has no ideology or morals and will do or say absolutely anything to get in power or stay there. The man is an imbecile and a pathological liar. He'll happily watch his country burn if it serves his personal interests. He's pissed off his own family members, who, unlike Boris, actually have a solid reputation. He is corrupt, uninterested in following the law, and is generally an awful human being. If you think that represents the Conservative Party, that says more about the Conservative Parry that it does about Johnson's moderation.
    Well said.

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    He's moderate to the extent that he has no ideology or morals and will do or say absolutely anything to get in power or stay there. The man is an imbecile and a pathological liar. He'll happily watch his country burn if it serves his personal interests. He's pissed off his own family members, who, unlike Boris, actually have a solid reputation. He is corrupt, uninterested in following the law, and is generally an awful human being. If you think that represents the Conservative Party, that says more about the Conservative Parry that it does about Johnson's moderation.
    He's none of that, but you hate him because he's winning and not on your side.

    He is bursting with energy and utterly focused. Just look at the discipline of his leadership campaign. It looks like he might manage to pull off a GE win (after 9 years of austere Tory Govt) that would objectively be a hell of an achievement. If he delivers Brexit then he will be the most consequential PM since Thatcher. If you add to that two times winner of the London mayoralty, the man who won the Brexit referendum, then you have the most successful electoral track record since Blair (at least).

    That's not a bad record so far - even if he does blow up at some point in the future. (But don't count on it.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He's none of that, but you hate him because he's winning and not on your side.

    He is bursting with energy and utterly focused. Just look at the discipline of his leadership campaign. It looks like he might manage to pull off a GE win (after 9 years of austere Tory Govt) that would objectively be a hell of an achievement. If he delivers Brexit then he will be the most consequential PM since Thatcher. If you add to that two times winner of the London mayoralty, the man who won the Brexit referendum, then you have the most successful electoral track record since Blair (at least).

    That's not a bad record so far - even if he does blow up at some point in the future. (But don't count on it.)
    None of that refutes Loki's points. And I seriously doubt Loki hates him because he's not "on his side". That's quite possibly the weakest argument you could have used.

  11. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    None of that refutes Loki's points. And I seriously doubt Loki hates him because he's not "on his side". That's quite possibly the weakest argument you could have used.
    Seems to me that Loki has gone increasingly leftwing for years now and dislikes Brexit.

    If Boris was a Lib Dem leader with the same alleged foibles and pro-Remain I don't think Loki would blink an eyelid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  12. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He's none of that, but you hate him because he's winning and not on your side.

    He is bursting with energy and utterly focused. Just look at the discipline of his leadership campaign. It looks like he might manage to pull off a GE win (after 9 years of austere Tory Govt) that would objectively be a hell of an achievement. If he delivers Brexit then he will be the most consequential PM since Thatcher. If you add to that two times winner of the London mayoralty, the man who won the Brexit referendum, then you have the most successful electoral track record since Blair (at least).

    That's not a bad record so far - even if he does blow up at some point in the future. (But don't count on it.)
    He's a liar who lies on camera. That's the character of the irredeemable chancer you're defending with such ardor.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  13. #43
    Just to be clear, Loki accused him of being a liar—which he demonstrably is—and of pissing off his family—which he appears to have done—and of being corrupt—which, in light of the Arcuri matter, is arguably the case—and of being an awful person—which, considering what he permitted during his stint at The Spectator, and his more recent remarks about black people and women in burkas, is a fair charge—yet your cultist instinct makes you say he's literally none of those things. He is undoubtedly—famously!—a liar. You have totally lost all semblance of integrity.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  14. #44
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    @randy
    Delivering Brexit is something that the cat of number 10 could have done, so your standard for 'consequential PM' is rather low. It eludes me why you think that getting a worse deal than May is proof of anything positive about the man.

    Sad that you are still members tomorrow.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  15. #45
    I'm still waiting for the riots and explosions we were supposedly going to get from the passionately angry public: furious at the mutinous remainer parliament.

  16. #46
    Wait till they get hangry
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #47


    When you know your audience
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  18. #48
    Who said that?

    Edit; don't worry it's all over Twitter. Rod Liddle. Odious man.

  19. #49
    Odious despicable prick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  20. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    I'm still waiting for the riots and explosions we were supposedly going to get from the passionately angry public: furious at the mutinous remainer parliament.

    We'll see in the ballot box.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #51
    Well according to JCM today will be the end of the Tory party. So yes, let's see.

  22. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Well according to JCM today will be the end of the Tory party. So yes, let's see.

    We weren't the ones to block Brexit, so its the end of this zombie Parliament instead.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  23. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Who said that?

    Edit; don't worry it's all over Twitter. Rod Liddle. Odious man.
    You say Rod Liddle, but I say it's the Spectator. They're the ones who have cultivated him, given him a platform, and amplified his message of hate. That said, he makes a valid point: Tories do like to inconvenience students on election day.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    He's none of that, but you hate him because he's winning and not on your side.

    He is bursting with energy and utterly focused. Just look at the discipline of his leadership campaign. It looks like he might manage to pull off a GE win (after 9 years of austere Tory Govt) that would objectively be a hell of an achievement. If he delivers Brexit then he will be the most consequential PM since Thatcher. If you add to that two times winner of the London mayoralty, the man who won the Brexit referendum, then you have the most successful electoral track record since Blair (at least).

    That's not a bad record so far - even if he does blow up at some point in the future. (But don't count on it.)
    Using the Trumpian strategy of deflecting through ad hominem? Every thing I said is demonstrably true. FYI (and this is undoubtedly supported by my posts here), my views align fairly well with the pre-2016 Conservative Party. I didn't become any more left wing. Your Conservative Party decided to abandon pragmatic liberal conservatism in favor of a corrupt nationalism. Any party that would debase itself by appointing Boris Johnson as its leader (by a huge margin no less) is a not party that deserves anyone's respect. Ditto for Labour and Corbyn, but Corbyn has no shot at getting a majority.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  25. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    Your Conservative Party decided to abandon pragmatic liberal conservatism in favor of a corrupt nationalism.
    +1
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    It's actually the original French billion, which is bi-million, which is a million to the power of 2. We adopted the word, and then they changed it, presumably as revenge for Crecy and Agincourt, and then the treasonous Americans adopted the new French usage and spread it all over the world. And now we have to use it.

    And that's Why I'm Voting Leave.

  26. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    We weren't the ones to block Brexit, so its the end of this zombie Parliament instead.
    Yes you did and continue to do so. The ERG and PM blocked Brexit earlier in the year, and now our PM is blocking brexit by a) bringing legislation too late for scrutiny and b) pulling it away from a parliamentary second reading.

    These are facts.

  27. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by gogobongopop View Post
    Yes you did and continue to do so. The ERG and PM blocked Brexit earlier in the year, and now our PM is blocking brexit by a) bringing legislation too late for scrutiny and b) pulling it away from a parliamentary second reading.

    These are facts.

    The only reason we are still in the EU is that Parliament voted to extend Article 50 in March, April and October. Neither the ERG nor the PM ever voted to extend on any of those 3 occasions. Remainer May voted to extend in March and April and the Remainers opposite in Parliament who scream about the dangers of no deal have rejected every deal the EU has negotiated with us - which is funny, because apparently we would unquestioningly accept all EU laws in future without having a say in that if we remain in the EU even if the laws have been passed by QMV against our wishes - but to accept these agreements the EU have reached is apparently unacceptable. If these rules the EU have agreed are not acceptable then remaining in the EU should itself be unacceptable too - if we should remain in the EU and unquestioningly accept EU rules then why not accept this agreement which the EU have agreed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  28. #58
    That's not the only reason week still in the EU, as I've outlined above.

    And we can't accept the deal now because the PM has pulled it.

  29. #59
    Interesting to see this Trumpian use of labels alongside names. "Remainer May" is less informative than "Habitual Liar Johnson".
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #60
    Brexit Party launching their campaign today. They are clearly out to damage and attack the Tory party.

    Farage says Johnson's deal isn't Brexit, they will stand in every single seat, and that Johnson's deal is so closely aligned to the EU he has no doubt there would be a campaign to remain which would win.

    Very interesting.

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