Shut up shop and fire their staff.Originally Posted by Steely Glint
It isn't just the 2%, although that alone is enough to tip many small businesses into loss-makers. Margins are tight.
Corbyn's policies are a wrecking-ball.
Shut up shop and fire their staff.
It isn't just the 2%, although that alone is enough to tip many small businesses into loss-makers. Margins are tight.
Corbyn's policies are a wrecking-ball.
That must be why no small businesses existed in the late aughts, when Brown made exactly the same change to the small profits rate. Or under Major when it was 25% or so.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Hyperbole. No one said all small businesses.
Such taxation certainly does not help those who have tighter margins or are struggling.
"Hyperbole", yeah, let's go with that.
Anyway, it's a tax on profits, so it can't turn any businesses into loss makers.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
No but the tax proposals on investments and R&D and many others certainly can. And why bother investing if you get taxed more when you do and if you are able to make a profit get taxed more when you do then get double taxed when you try and take out some income."Hyperbole", yeah, let's go with that.
Anyway, it's a tax on profits, so it can't turn any businesses into loss makers.
Not to forget that it's 9% for a lot of small businesses.
There seems to be some misunderstand over what is or is not a small business. Lets do an example of say a small electrical firm with 5 employees - 2 18 year old apprentices on minimum wage and 3 qualified electricians on double the minimum wage paying its owner via dividends after corporation tax has been paid. Think that would be a small business in my eyes but under Corbyn's proposals it isn't a small one.
Currently:
Spoiler:
Net Profit £69.9k
Corporation Tax (17%) £11.9k
Net £58k
Tax Free dividend income £2k
Dividend Tax £48k @ 7.5% + £6k @ 32.5% = £5.5k
Owners Net Income after taxes £52.4k
Labour's proposal
Spoiler:
Net Profit £25,959
Corp Tax (26%) £6,750
Owners net income BEFORE TAX £19,209
Why would that company continue?
Twitter Link
Twitter Link
Deeply embarrassing, and deeply disturbing.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
@Randblade:
A) The small profits rate is on profits up over 300,000 and I think it's banded like income tax, it has nothing to do with turnover
B) Just because your hypothetical SME owner was paying double the apprentice minimum wage to their main guys doesn't mean they also have to increase their wages just because the minimum wage for apprentices has also gone up, unless they've got it in their contract that they will pay them double the minimum wage of apprentices, which... I've never heard that. I mean, don't get me wrong, that's very generous of them but they probably shouldn't do it if they're going to put the business in jeopardy.
d) You're not taking into account sources of funding available to small businesses that employ apprentices.
c) Does this numbers even represent some kind of realistic looking business for that industry or did you just make them up to get the result you wanted? Like, what is the actual turn over and profits of a real electricians with 5 employees?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Average profit margin for electrical business in the UK is something like 6%, should be below 10% on average anyway, and the owner tends work as well. The numbers are for a much more successful business. Not sure what the breakdown is, in the UK, between owners putting themselves on the payroll vs taking out dividends.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Of course, that entire argument is horseshit because brexit will force many more businesses to shut down, and raise costs for everyone.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Not really. All independent forecasts are for the U.K. to continue growing post Brexit just maybe a bit slower. And SMEs are likely the least exposed to Brexit.
Bottom line is that Labour in their own numbers expect to extract £40 billion more in taxes from corporations while simultaneously jacking up wages while claiming that won't effect employment or the poor or have any knock on effects!
Get real! If companies see their expenses sky rocket combined with taxes shooting up and if they dare to make a profit then they will be doubly taxed trying to take that out then it isn't rocket science what will happen next. Brexit is nothing in comparison.
SMEs are extremely exposed to brexit, eg. SMEs in logistics/haulage, any SMEs that buys equipment and products from abroad, etc. It's really interesting to see your claim about "all independent forecasts", and it would be illuminating to get an explanation of what you mean with "independent" and to see details on three such forecasts. The impact of Brexit has likely already matched or outweighed those £40b, so Brexit is already more harmful than Labour policies.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
For the nationalist, nationalism always trumps economics.
Hope is the denial of reality
What Brexit impact? We haven't stopped growing and have full employment.
According to the OBR, no deal Brexit - which you've spend the last 3 years telling us would be basically fine - would cause the UK economy to shrink by 2% by the end of 2020. 2% of the UK GDP is about 100 billion. That money wouldn't be taken as taxes and reinvested into actually useful things like schools, hospitals or infrastructure which both contribute to the GDP and indirectly benefit the business world, it would just be gone. If you've been telling us how the UK economy can easily tough out no-deal, you can't exactly sit there with your bare face hanging out and tell us that Corbyn's extremely-within-historical-norms tax increases are going to destroy the economy.
I mean, you can and it would be very on brand for you to do that, but it's not, you know, good.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
I've never wanted a No Deal Brexit nor have the Tories. Farage and his ilk actually want that.
I've always said a mutually respectful deal was in everybody's interests and we have one now.
Corbyn's proposals are not within historical norms, they go miles beyond historical norms. And that's without considering the £58bn bung to the WASPI hypocrites today that was completely unfunded and not in his manifesto. Because that's entirely his MO, what's £58bn between friends?
Yeah, and a snail's pace is still moving forward.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...-business-live
When the stars threw down their spears
And watered heaven with their tears:
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the lamb make thee?
2.5% to 2.9% hit to GDP already. The starting point is that the Brexit process has already cost more than Labour's policies are projected to. Businesses large and small have already been harmed by uncertainty and prep/mitigation costs. Try and spin it all you like, but it's pretty silly to get hysterical about Labour's proposals after backing an equally harmful decision.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
No Dumbo, you do not have a deal. You have an agreement that settles your obligations and give you the perspective of being able to negotiate a deal. And no doubt you will vote in three weeks for a party that will throw away what little you gained so far by refusing to accept that a deal will not be concluded before the end of 2020.
Which means you art hurtling towards a no deal chaotic exit.
Congratulations America
Not sure how someone can read all these direct quotes and not reach the conclusion that Johnson is a misogynist and a racist.
https://www.indy100.com/article/bori...s-lgbt-9215711
Hope is the denial of reality
I know you've never wanted a no deal Brexit, but you've always made the case that a no deal Brexit - were it to happen - would not be that big of a deal, and the UK economy would essentially be able to tank the damage. A few months ago, your main position was that May should have been prepared to walk away from negotiations in order to secure a better deal, which is a strategy that substantially increases the risk of no deal.
You've never wanted a no deal brexit as your first choice, but you've made it perfectly clear you were happy with it as a second choice compared to, for example, another referendum.
FYI: Given the amount of false statements I've had to refute so far, such as the claim that the small profits rate is applied by turnover rather than profit (which may have been an honest mistake on Timbuk's part or a mistake in the manifesto which was corrected when I looked at it) and also your general history of dishonesty, I will be ignoring any and all comments about the Labour manifesto that do not include a page number and a link to the right document or in the case of something non-manifesto related, a link to a reputable news source to both demonstrate the think actually happened and to provide the appropriate context.Corbyn's proposals are not within historical norms, they go miles beyond historical norms. And that's without considering the £58bn bung to the WASPI hypocrites today that was completely unfunded and not in his manifesto. Because that's entirely his MO, what's £58bn between friends?
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Yeah, but Corbyn may have mispronounced a dude's name and isn't that the Real Racism? </uk media>
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Exposing his lack of character only serves to endear him to others who lack character. Just as the Spectator's repugnant bigotry has a large and appreciative audience, Johnson—lifelong repugnant bigot—has a base.
"One day, we shall die. All the other days, we shall live."
Yet, if I see the polling and the way apparently the British electorate is willing to go over the cliff like a bunch of lemmings, I can't help but thinking that the problem is bigger than the peddling of lies by politicians.
Congratulations America
Never had this happen before but I've just by pure coincidence bumped into the candidate I'll be voting for this election. I just got home and parked on the road (there's no off road parking) just as 2 people wearing blue rosettes were walking past - a man carrying a clipboard and a woman with a stack of flyers. Got to chatting briefly with them and the woman handed me a flyer - and I realised that it was her face on the flyer, she was the candidate. She seemed very friendly, I hope she gets elected.
Twitter Link
Interesting chart and patterns.
I know loads of nice people who I wouldn't give my vote. It's definitely not a good reason to think someone is worth your vote.
Congratulations America
Get a load of this, right.
Boris Johnson, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, has backed out of yet another TV debate, this time on climate change. He was replaced with a big block of ice. Johnson then sent his dad (????) down to Channel 4 to try and get them to let Gove take part in his place:
Twitter Link
And when they won't let him since the debate was intended for leaders, Gove said C4 had "vetoed a conservative voice" and have filed a formal complaint with Ofcom:
Twitter Link
And have, apprantly, threatened to "review Channel 4’s public service broadcasting obligations"
Twitter Link
It's fucking pathetic.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
Here's a picture of the sculpture. I think it's very tasteful, I don't know what the Tory's are complaining about.
Should have given him the Roy Hattersley treatment.
When the sky above us fell
We descended into hell
Into kingdom come
What a shock to see you spreading this lie and nonsense.. Not unusually for Channel 4 who are not remotely impartial this whole thing was a load of crap. Firstly Stanley Johnson didn't just turn up, he was invited by Channel 4.
Channel 4, quite literally the 4th rate news operation in this country, have no right to demand the Prime Minister attends a minor TV event. At the best of times not even the BBC does, the only person who can summon the Prime Minister is Her Majesty the Queen. I don't think any Prime Minister has ever attended a debate on Channel 4 who don't even send journalists to news interviews (they get ITN to do all that legwork). Debates are arranged between the parties and the broadcasters, this debate was not arranged. Channel 4 announced this and the minor parties said they could attend [afterall the real broadcasters are more into head to head debates some of which have already occured than this 7 way nonsense] and Boris said immediately he couldn't attend because he had existing commitments on that date. In case you hadn't noticed there's an election going on right now and he was campaigning in Wales in pre-announced events that were announced before this debate was announced by Channel 4 without them confirming his availability or attendance.
However we don't have a Presidential Election, this is a Parliamentary Election and why Channel 4 are probably in very serious breach of OFCOM regulations with their petulant and childish antics. The media doesn't invite leaders etc they invite parties, they can request the leader but they can't demand it. The Conservatives are entitled to send who they want to represent the party under OFCOM regulations, just as Amber Rudd represented the Tories at a BBC debate last election. Just as tomorrow multiple parties have other MPs taking part in one of the 7-way debates. But to make it worse Channel 4 then said this was a Climate Debate so who better to represent that for the Conservative Party than one of the parties most senior MPs who was until recently the Environment Secretary and is responsible for the parties Climate Policies? Gove is not just a random person he is literally the parties Climate expert who offered himself to take part in what they were calling #ClimateDebate. If they had said this was an economic debate would they have rejected the Chancellor of the Exchequer taking part? Pathetic.
As for the Buzzfeed bullshit from an unnamed source, that is typical Buzzfeed bullshit. In case you didn't know this Channel 4's public sector broadcasting obligations expire in 2024. Its not a threat that the Tories will review them, whoever wins the election will be reviewing them. If the Tories win and don't renew or review them then they will expire automatically.
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