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Thread: 2020 Democratic Primaries

  1. #91
    Wow Iowa sure shit the bed this time around.

  2. #92
    DNC wasting no time fucking up this election.

  3. #93
    Sounds like a complete and utter farce.

    Electronics and voting should never be involved. I'm quite content with our pencil and paper voting system.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  4. #94
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  5. #95
    That Twitter link is showing as broken to me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  6. #96
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  7. #97
    Kudos though to the Des Moines Register for keeping up their excellent record with Iowa. Ann Selzers final poll was spot on!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  8. #98
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    Why doesn’t Biden just go away.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  9. #99
    Electronic voting is the dumbest idea in the history of dumb ideas.
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Electronic voting is the dumbest idea in the history of dumb ideas.
    You may think that, but why do you bring it up commenting on an election that lets people vote by physically joining the voters for a candidate?
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  11. #101
    Here's the results of last night's caucus:


  12. #102
    Clearly Michael Bennet outperformed expectations! He's tied for first.

    Hopefully this gigantic mess leads to the end of the Iowa caucus.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  13. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    You may think that, but why do you bring it up commenting on an election that lets people vote by physically joining the voters for a candidate?
    Because the results were supposed to be counted by an "app" made by a company apparently called *checkes notes* "Shadow Inc". Not only did this app completely fail it's intended purpose, people are now busy going round looking and which candidates donated to what, and generally raising quizzical eyebrows. So now the results will be cast into doubt whatever happens.

    Elections must not only be fair, but also be seen to be fair, which in general electronic voting systems will never be, which is in top of the *myriad* ways electronic voting systems can actually be compromised.

    America, your election cycle is already 700 billion years long, why can't you use a paper voting system and wait a few extra hours to get the result?
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  14. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by littlelolligagged View Post
    Hopefully this gigantic mess leads to the end of the Iowa caucus.
    One can only hope. This whole non-secret ballot mess of theirs is just too easily abused.

    And what fucking moron of a dev didn’t think it wise to test their brand new app?

  15. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    Here's the results of last night's caucus:

    Now you are just rubbing Andrew Yang's tie for first in Loki's face.

    EDIT: Ooops, looks like lolli beat me to it.

  16. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Because the results were supposed to be counted by an "app" made by a company apparently called *checkes notes* "Shadow Inc". Not only did this app completely fail it's intended purpose, people are now busy going round looking and which candidates donated to what, and generally raising quizzical eyebrows. So now the results will be cast into doubt whatever happens.

    Elections must not only be fair, but also be seen to be fair, which in general electronic voting systems will never be, which is in top of the *myriad* ways electronic voting systems can actually be compromised.

    America, your election cycle is already 700 billion years long, why can't you use a paper voting system and wait a few extra hours to get the result?
    100% agreed. Electronics and voting are completely unnecessary. Our paper and pencil voting may date back centuries and be an antiquated way to vote - but it works.

    I don't know a single person who works in IT who thinks mixing IT and elections is a good idea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  17. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Because the results were supposed to be counted by an "app" made by a company apparently called *checkes notes* "Shadow Inc". Not only did this app completely fail it's intended purpose, people are now busy going round looking and which candidates donated to what, and generally raising quizzical eyebrows. So now the results will be cast into doubt whatever happens.

    Elections must not only be fair, but also be seen to be fair, which in general electronic voting systems will never be, which is in top of the *myriad* ways electronic voting systems can actually be compromised.

    America, your election cycle is already 700 billion years long, why can't you use a paper voting system and wait a few extra hours to get the result?
    There were over a thousand voting locations. Some method of electronic eporting to the center was bound to be necessary. Probably they used to relay results by phone for a century or so. Not much different than using an app. In the end it was al based on the paper registration of a walk through count. It is messed up, but I see no reason to doubt the process as such.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  18. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    100% agreed. Electronics and voting are completely unnecessary. Our paper and pencil voting may date back centuries and be an antiquated way to vote - but it works.

    I don't know a single person who works in IT who thinks mixing IT and elections is a good idea.
    I think it depends on how you define "electronics." I was listening to the radio on my way into work today, and one of the points that was made is that our ballots can be far more complex than most other (parliamentary) democracies. Ballots can reach 15+ pages in some parts of the country, and tabulating the results from those ballots usually use some kind of electronics even if the voter cast a paper ballot. That being said, E-voting will probably not be a great idea for the foreseeable future.

  19. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    There were over a thousand voting locations. Some method of electronic eporting to the center was bound to be necessary. Probably they used to relay results by phone for a century or so. Not much different than using an app. In the end it was al based on the paper registration of a walk through count. It is messed up, but I see no reason to doubt the process as such.
    They were reporting results by telephone too. There were a lot of fuck-ups here, and the app looks like it may just have been a convenient scapegoat.

    The real lesson here should be that caucuses are dumb.

  20. #110
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    If anything I was impressed by the level of participation.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  21. #111
    Is it too late to ask the UN to monitor the vote in New Hampshire?

  22. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    If anything I was impressed by the level of participation.
    It was something like 16% or registered voters. Primary turnouts are also bad, but it's more than that. Caucuses cause problems for large groups of people: second shift workers, parents of young children (pay a sitter or take them with you and hope the late evening doesn't lead to crankiness or misbehavior), people with limited mobility/transportation, etc. Even worse, though, is that it means your choice is made public - and that can absolutely lead to workplace and other discrimination.
    We're stuck in a bloody snowglobe.

  23. #113
    I've seen a number of reports of vote tampering, the rules being miscommunicated/lied about, and voter suppression at some districts. Caucuses are a terrible idea that make these things easy, and I'm glad my state finally got rid of them.

  24. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    There were over a thousand voting locations. Some method of electronic eporting to the center was bound to be necessary.
    And why is that?
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  25. #115
    Looking like it could be a good result for Mayor Pete and an absolutely terrible one for Biden who really needs to pull out of this race already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  26. #116
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    @Steely. Big country, low density, why drive hours with the results of a count when you can call or use the internet? Using an app to report the tabulation is seriously less crazy than waiting for days for the results to be hand delivered.

    I hope this means Biden is out really fast.
    Greece shows us that there is a kind of politician worse than the ones that break their election promises; the ones that keep their election promises.

  27. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    @Steely. Big country, low density, why drive hours with the results of a count when you can call or use the internet? Using an app to report the tabulation is seriously less crazy than waiting for days for the results to be hand delivered.

    I hope this means Biden is out really fast.
    If Biden goes out it will mean Bloomberg will be the Bernie alternative for the DNC. All about the Bs.

  28. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Hazir View Post
    @Steely. Big country, low density, why drive hours with the results of a count when you can call or use the internet?
    Wait, I know this one.

    Because it's fundamentally insecure, lacks transparency and undermines trust in the electoral process.

    Using an app to report the tabulation is seriously less crazy than waiting for days for the results to be hand delivered.
    They have cars in the states, I think? It's not really necessary that the votes be counted centrally, but if they want to do it that way then they do have cars.
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  29. #119
    It takes about seven hours to drive across Iowa. I'm all for tried-and-tested systems, but not sure going back to a pre-telephone counting system is really the way to go.

    Also, each state's party apparatus is different so this is something developed by/for the Iowa Democratic party for the weird system that is caucusing. I suppose I expected Biden to perform a bit better, though we only have about 62% of precincts reporting so maybe there will be some shift.

  30. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Wait, I know this one.

    Because it's fundamentally insecure, lacks transparency and undermines trust in the electoral process.

    They have cars in the states, I think? It's not really necessary that the votes be counted centrally, but if they want to do it that way then they do have cars.
    Iowa alone is bigger than England.

    None of the flaws with electronic voting you listed are fundamental flaws. We routinely see problems because the politicians who set the design requirements and pick the system to use are among the least qualified people to do so. The contract always winds up going to some shit-tier company whose owner is friends with the right people. For an example, see last night. The way to build a provably correct system that is transparent, verifiable, and open without compromising voter secrecy has been a solved problem for a long time now, and is in wide use anywhere that isn't an election, where everyone seems to prefer random inexperienced companies that can't sell their crap to anyone else. The only real downside to the existing solutions is that it can be hard to explain the inner workings to people without a background in math.

    Also, it's worth pointing out that in this case the system was just a fancy IM service for the purposes of this caucus. It was just relaying the votes that were hand-counted at each of the voting precincts, and reportedly the bug was just a display issue. The app certainly didn't help any, but it was not the root cause, and the problem it caused was fairly minor and easily worked around. There were a lot of things that went wrong, and most of those things were the fault of the DNC's election officials. Those would have happened with or without the app. The 2000 election debacle and many others happened entirely without electronic assistance.

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