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Thread: 2020 Democratic Primaries

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Bloomberg's viablity in this primary is proof that for many American moderates and centrists, the only real problem they have with Trump is exclusively one of style and presentation.
    Or his assumed viability is illusory, OR moderates and centrists have managed to remain unaware of the skeletons in his closet, or they, for whatever reason, believe the other candidates are not as electable.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  2. #182
    Even without the recent stories that have been dug up, his bid still represents the idea that what America needs after having a racist oligarch as president for four years, is another racist oligarch, but one that isn't as crass and boorish as Trump.
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  3. #183
    Thank you, Steely, for your forum contributions on behalf of the board's Leninist wing.
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  4. #184
    So, you gonna share with us which Trump policies Bloomburg would undo, or at the very least not have done something similar himself?
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  5. #185
    The guy was elected mayor of heavily Democratic NYC 3 times. And it wasn't because he was a right winger. For starters, he's one of the country's leaders on gun control. He takes climate change seriously. He cares a bit too much about public health. He wants a more progressive tax system. He's for gay rights. To paint him as a Trump clone makes about as much sense as pretending Corbyn is a Johnson clone.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The guy was elected mayor of heavily Democratic NYC 3 times. And it wasn't because he was a right winger. For starters, he's one of the country's leaders on gun control. He takes climate change seriously. He cares a bit too much about public health. He wants a more progressive tax system. He's for gay rights. To paint him as a Trump clone makes about as much sense as pretending Corbyn is a Johnson clone.
    How dare you bring facts and policies into the discussion?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Even without the recent stories that have been dug up, his bid still represents the idea that what America needs after having a racist oligarch as president for four years, is another racist oligarch, but one that isn't as crass and boorish as Trump.
    Three people in England just signed up as volunteers for Bloomberg's campaign

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    So, you gonna share with us which Trump policies Bloomburg would undo, or at the very least not have done something similar himself?
    The problem with Bloomberg isn't that he's Trump; the problem with Bloomberg is that he's about to show that the US govt is for sale. Sanders is bad, but at least his candidacy would be the result of an arguably normal political process. Losing is bad; being bought may be worse. But, if the presidency must be bought, at least let it be bought by the billionaire about whom we know the least awful stuff. Bloomberg will do more good by bankrolling other candidates' campaigns against Trump and his sycophants.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Three people in England just signed up as volunteers for Bloomberg's campaign
    That's not actually damning. It could just be auto-generated JS from real data. I checked the site and couldn't find that popup at all. One of the projects I work on works this way, using server-side C# to dynamically generate JS to push to clients.

  10. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    The problem with Bloomberg isn't that he's Trump; the problem with Bloomberg is that he's about to show that the US govt is for sale. Sanders is bad, but at least his candidacy would be the result of an arguably normal political process. Losing is bad; being bought may be worse. But, if the presidency must be bought, at least let it be bought by the billionaire about whom we know the least awful stuff. Bloomberg will do more good by bankrolling other candidates' campaigns against Trump and his sycophants.
    It would show that in a primary full of weak candidates (as perceived by the voters), money can buy the election. Money isn't going to buy anyone the general election. Hillary Clinton significantly outspent Trump last time around.
    Hope is the denial of reality

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    That's not actually damning. It could just be auto-generated JS from real data. I checked the site and couldn't find that popup at all. One of the projects I work on works this way, using server-side C# to dynamically generate JS to push to clients.
    That's also possible, but the code appears to have been removed after the thread gained a lot of attention, and it appears to have selected randomly from a small pre-defined array of (presumably strategically important) states.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    It would show that in a primary full of weak candidates (as perceived by the voters), money can buy the election. Money isn't going to buy anyone the general election. Hillary Clinton significantly outspent Trump last time around.
    If he "buys" the Dem nomination, and then wins against Trump, that's a fair argument that the presidency is also for sale - at least, you can buy a VIP pass that lets you cut to the finish. Clinton outspent Trump, but Trump obv. had some notable advantages over her, including systemic political and cultural dysfunction and a disproportionate advantage in the EC.

    Ofc money is just part of the equation, but if Bloomberg - with his late start and his controversial record - suddenly manages to nab the nomination by spending extraordinary sums, it's going to show just how important a part of the equation money really is, and that's going to do severe harm to the perceived legitimacy of the Dem nomination process, at worst fomenting even more intense anti-establishment populism in the long run. Say what you like about Trump, at least his victory over his Republican competitors had a veneer of political legitimacy (by the standards of current American politics).
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    The guy was elected mayor of heavily Democratic NYC 3 times.
    Yeah, Johnson was Mayor of heavily Labour London, and we all know how that one turned out in the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Loki View Post
    He takes climate change seriously.
    The fuck he does. The guy loves fracking.

    He wants a more progressive tax system.
    The self-described fiscal conservative is going to come up with a "more progressive tax system" is he? I feel like we have very different ideas about what those words mean.

    Gun control I'll give you, but he wouldn't be first pro-gun control president to enter office and fail to do gun control.
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  13. #193
    https://www.politico.com/news/2019/1...-change-084498

    I don't see how a progressive tax system is inconsistent with a balanced budget.

    When you run against Red Ken...
    Hope is the denial of reality

  14. #194
    Newly unearthed lawsuits against Democratic presidential hopeful Michael Bloomberg that have either been settled or dismissed paint a disturbing picture of misogynistic behavior. The never-before-seen legal briefs were provided to the Washington Post under the Freedom of Information Act and include complaints by a number of women that were followed up by attempts to keep them quiet. In one high-profile complaint, saleswoman Sekiko Sakai Garrison alleges that, when told of a male colleague’s impending marriage, Bloomberg suggested to female salespeople, “All of you girls line up to give him [oral sex] as a wedding present.”
    https://www.thedailybeast.com/girls-...uits-unearthed

    Democratic presidential candidate Michael Bloomberg allegedly told a female employee,”kill it!” when she told him she was pregnant, according to the former Bloomberg executive’s 1997 lawsuit.

    The lawsuit filed in New York by Sekiko Sakai Garrison alleges Bloomberg followed up his first remark with another offensive comment, “Great! Number 16,” apparently referring to the number of pregnant employees on his payroll.
    https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...wsuit-alleges/

    I hate Michael Bloomberg more with every passing moment.
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Steely Glint View Post
    Yeah, Johnson was Mayor of heavily Labour London, and we all know how that one turned out in the end.
    Yeah he won a landslide across the country winning dozens of Labour towns all across the country that had not voted Tory in decades, if ever. A trait you'd think you'd look for in a political candidate when you're trying to unseat the opposition.

    Funnily enough being popular in Labour London extended to being popular in Labour Workington, Labour Blyth Valley, Labour Redcar, Labour Sedgefield, Labour Bolsover and many more.

    Even f***ing Leigh! How the fu**ity fu**ing fu** did we win Leigh!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  16. #196
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Yeah he won a landslide across the country winning dozens of Labour towns all across the country that had not voted Tory in decades, if ever. A trait you'd think you'd look for in a political candidate when you're trying to unseat the opposition.
    Yes, by constantly lying to the public, by stoking resentment against democratic institutions and norms, and - most importantly to disenchanted working-class voters both Labour and Tory - by appealing to ignorant xenophobic Little Englander nativism, all at a time when the opposition just happened to be led by an absolute tit with weak support in his own party. The argument here is that the secret to unseating Trump is to get your own Trump and hope that Trump doesn't have any support. *audience applauds*
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  17. #197
    You're such a sore loser, its not a pretty sight.

    Boris won because he led a positive and optimistic campaign, not a negative one. The campaign he led was based on his policies he wanted to get done. He's got his main one done already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    That's not actually damning. It could just be auto-generated JS from real data. I checked the site and couldn't find that popup at all. One of the projects I work on works this way, using server-side C# to dynamically generate JS to push to clients.
    I don't know anything about modern website coding, but that list of states just happens to be a 1:1 correspondence with Super Tuesday states.

    Also, Steely: a very good case can be made in favor of the environmental virtues of fracking, at least in the medium term.
    "When I meet God, I am going to ask him two questions: Why relativity? And why turbulence? I really believe he will have an answer for the first." - Werner Heisenberg (maybe)

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Boris won because he led a positive and optimistic campaign, not a negative one. The campaign he led was based on his policies he wanted to get done. He's got his main one done already.
    The Tories won because they - and esp. Johnson - embraced a British take on Trumpism, at a time when their opposition was led by a monumentally unpopular extremist. The lying and obfuscation, the pandering to xenophobic nativism, the callous undermining of democratic norms - these are all taken straight out of the Bannon-Trump playbook. Your argument is that, to win against Trump, the Democrats need their own Trump, which is sort of true, but also another way of saying that losing is the only way to win. It's a race to the bottom, where voters will lose no matter who wins.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  20. #200
    Boris didn't do any of that but then you're an extremist with a biased and very slanted worldview so you would think that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggin View Post
    I don't know anything about modern website coding, but that list of states just happens to be a 1:1 correspondence with Super Tuesday states.

    Also, Steely: a very good case can be made in favor of the environmental virtues of fracking, at least in the medium term.
    I'd correct that to short term.

    Fracking is environmentally much more friendly than importing Middle Eastern oil or burning coal.

    However it won't be long before it is unnecessary. I estimate we can largely eliminate requiring gas within a decade.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    Being upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  22. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    Boris didn't do any of that but then you're an extremist with a biased and very slanted worldview so you would think that.
    Johnson is a well-known liar, and both he and other Tory MPs lied or obfuscated on important issues leading up to the referendum, leading up to the elections, and, indeed, leading up to... today. He attempted to obstruct Parliament and evade parliamentary scrutiny, he tried to deceive the Queen and the courts, he has begun to undermine the authority of the judiciary and the integrity of the civil service, he's begun to obstruct journalists, he lied about a relationship that gave rise to a conflict of interest on multiple instances, he's trying to populate both the govt. and the civil service with yes-men, and he's STILL obstructing the release of the intelligence report on Russian interference in British politics. He is, in almost every sense that matters, a British Trump. There are any number of pro-Brexit politicians in the Conservative party who are not as deeply flawed as this racist buffoon - although none, perhaps, who reflect the flaws of the British electorate with such fidelity.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  23. #203
    Can we recall the opening post and suggest that, so far, Wraith is doing pretty well? Especially calling Mayor Pete as a real contender two months ahead of the first caucuses/primaries.

  24. #204
    Pretty sure Wraith is bankrolling Buttigieg's campaign.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  25. #205
    What I find fascinating is that Pete is in the lead in delegates but its all about Bernie right now in the media.

  26. #206
    Pete's done nearly all of his campaigning in Iowa and New Hampshire. We still have to see if he can maintain momentum outside of those two states.

  27. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnaught View Post
    Can we recall the opening post and suggest that, so far, Wraith is doing pretty well? Especially calling Mayor Pete as a real contender two months ahead of the first caucuses/primaries.
    That one was easy. At the time, he was the only single-digit candidate above 5%, and he was already polling in the teens in Iowa & New Hampshire. He had a lot of upward momentum at the time, so just looking at the data made it clear that he'd do well this far. He still has to keep it up outside of those two states, and I'd still place Sanders as the current most likely to win.

    What I'm a bit proud of is calling Biden's fall. That was back when he was the front-runner by a solid margin, and the logic seemed pretty twisty. Though when I placed him in the longshot bracket I was expecting more arguing than there was, so maybe it was more obvious than I thought.

  28. #208
    Biden should have stayed out of the race. Ditto for Bloomberg and Steyer. Old rich white men with establishment ties have lost their appeal. Bernie scares people who aren't ready for real change. Warren isn't a rich old white man, but she's Bernie's *female* counterpart. Buttigieg and Klobuchar are "moderates" that could appeal to Republicans fed up with Trump, but that would mean nominating a gay man, or a woman, to run against Trump.

    I keep hearing about "electability" -- and that the US is not ready to elect a gay man, or a woman, even if they'd be a better alternative to Trump.

    No wonder most people hate politics, and we have a pathetic voter turn-out that doesn't reflect majority views.
    Last edited by GGT; 02-17-2020 at 03:32 AM.

  29. #209
    When Biden was accused of a history of sexual harassment, Steely, you yawned. But now that it's someone who made real money in business before getting involved in public service it's a major issue. Why don't you just admit that this has nothing whatsoever to do with any actual behavior by Bloomberg and is just about him being a plutocrat and hence an enemy of the People?
    Last night as I lay in bed, looking up at the stars, I thought, “Where the hell is my ceiling?"

  30. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by LittleFuzzy View Post
    When Biden was accused of a history of sexual harassment, Steely, you yawned.
    If there's one thing everyone knows about me it's how much I love... *checks notes*... Joe Biden.

    Is this really the approach you want to take?

    But now that it's someone who made real money in business before getting involved in public service it's a major issue.
    Biden shouldn't be the nominee either. Really, what did you think you were doing with this, my dude?

    Why don't you just admit that this has nothing whatsoever to do with any actual behavior by Bloomberg and is just about him being a plutocrat and hence an enemy of the People?
    Do we need a sexual harrasser and racist in the white house? No. Do we need a piece of shit billionaire, who woke up one morning and decided he could buy the presidency, in the White House? Also no.

    I mean, I'd vote for Bloomberg against Trump, but I'd wear one of those SARS masks to the polling booth and take a long shower afterwards.
    Take the suffering and plague away now, let the madness become the truth, cause it's never too late for mercy when the red tides rise to you
    As power tends towards violent ends, I'll choose to give up nothing, cause it's too late to be the hero, and it's too late to see the truth
    I'm exempt of absolution
    But it's never too late for you

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