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Thread: 2020 US Presidential election

  1. #511
    Oh lol they put NPR as center. Hilarious.

  2. #512
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    That rag has 0 sources on the record and now about a dozen people (including Trump hater Bolton) who say they never heard what the Atlantic is claiming Trump said. The Atlantic is a joke, its basically just Buzzfeed but even more partisan.
    No you fucking clown, as any person who's ever written a piece for the Atlantic can confirm, their teams check literally everything. Every tiny little detail. What someone ate at a meeting, what the weather was like, everything. In addition to the Atlantic, several other news sources have confirmed the details of this story, all of which are consistent with Trump's public statements on these subjects. Against this, you're putting a menagerie of notorious liars and morons known for pulling bullshit out of their ass—people who lie and bullshit on the record. Lewk, you're a fucking joke. You know you're a joke, and I am beginning to suspect even you don't respect yourself. Which is fair, because you don't deserve any respect.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  3. #513
    Right, there's this thing that has been puzzling me throughout.

    Lets believe Trump at his word, why not. Lets roll with it. Trump downplayed the Covid-19 because he didn't want to create a panic.

    Lewkowksi, explain this to me. A president who knows about the dangers of Covid-19, but is motivated not to create a panic, still pushes for, and actively advertises rallies and boasting how these rallies will be packed events. That he knew about the danger of Covid-19 is now known because we have heard him on record. Knowing how dangerous this Covid-19 is, how do you excuse Trump for placing increasing his re-election chances higher than the lives of people who were willing to support him by attending those rallies?

    That is what boggles me. I know you love and adore Trump because of the reaction he causes among what you call 'liberals'. They loathe him, therefor, you love him.

    But this was directed towards his most loyal of followers. He is gambling with their lives, just so he can stand up on a stage and bellow nonsense at them to go "yay", just so he can reaffirm the image he has of himself, the greatest president ever.

    Why doesn't this anger you? This is not about pissing off liberals. This is directed at those who were responsible for putting him where he is now, the President of the United States. It doesn't bother you that he only cares about you lot when you get to vote, or be a number at a rally?

    Look, I can fully understand rooting for a team, and have blinkers on, but when that team shows clearly, without a hint of ambiguity, that his re-election chances are more important than your health, are you that much of a supporter that you feel it's fine that a leader gambles with your lives for "the good of the country" without your informed say so?

    And yeah, you're not the first staunch republican supporter I ask this question to, so I am not expecting much. Also, this isn't a gotcha question, because that wouldn't be enough reason for me to delurk. I'm having real issues with squaring the thought processes involved that makes you accept this kind of behaviour from a president of the United States.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  4. #514
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    What advice did Fauci give to Trump that he didn't take?
    Lmao you dumb motherfucker, did Fauci tell Trump to fuck up testing, tracing and isolating for months? Did Fauci tell Trump to obstruct governors' efforts to secure access to essential supplies? Did Fauci tell Trump to pressure states to reopen too soon? Did Fauci tell Trump to downplay the risks? Did Fauci tell Trump to fuck up the coordinated pandemic response? Did Fauci tell Trump to dismantle the pandemic response system that was in place when Trump became president? Did Fauci tell Trump to neglect pandemic preparedness? Did Fauci tell Trump he wanted to be muzzled by Putin's former PR guy, who has also been interfering in the CDC's production of important reports that guide policy and practice? Lewk, you are a fucking clown, and it is genuinely embarrassing to see these increasingly pathetic attempts to salvage the last vestiges of your dignity while your whole ludicrous ass is on full display. Trump's failures are his; he can't foist them off on others. Mature, adult men intuitively understand this basic principle of leadership, and it's honestly just fucking sad that you don't. You've really had to lower the bar for yourself, haven't you mate.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  5. #515
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    Right, there's this thing that has been puzzling me throughout.

    Lets believe Trump at his word, why not. Lets roll with it. Trump downplayed the Covid-19 because he didn't want to create a panic.

    Lewkowksi, explain this to me. A president who knows about the dangers of Covid-19, but is motivated not to create a panic, still pushes for, and actively advertises rallies and boasting how these rallies will be packed events. That he knew about the danger of Covid-19 is now known because we have heard him on record. Knowing how dangerous this Covid-19 is, how do you excuse Trump for placing increasing his re-election chances higher than the lives of people who were willing to support him by attending those rallies?

    That is what boggles me. I know you love and adore Trump because of the reaction he causes among what you call 'liberals'. They loathe him, therefor, you love him.

    But this was directed towards his most loyal of followers. He is gambling with their lives, just so he can stand up on a stage and bellow nonsense at them to go "yay", just so he can reaffirm the image he has of himself, the greatest president ever.

    Why doesn't this anger you? This is not about pissing off liberals. This is directed at those who were responsible for putting him where he is now, the President of the United States. It doesn't bother you that he only cares about you lot when you get to vote, or be a number at a rally?

    Look, I can fully understand rooting for a team, and have blinkers on, but when that team shows clearly, without a hint of ambiguity, that his re-election chances are more important than your health, are you that much of a supporter that you feel it's fine that a leader gambles with your lives for "the good of the country" without your informed say so?

    And yeah, you're not the first staunch republican supporter I ask this question to, so I am not expecting much. Also, this isn't a gotcha question, because that wouldn't be enough reason for me to delurk. I'm having real issues with squaring the thought processes involved that makes you accept this kind of behaviour from a president of the United States.
    Lewk doesn't believe the pandemic poses much of a risk to him and those in his tribe (both because he doesn't believe covid itself isn't all that dangerous, and because he believes he's protected from it). He believes that it poses a risk for the enemy, and, if not, that it can at least be used as a political weapon against the enemy. When Trump says he knew the pandemic was a big deal and that covid was dangerous, Lewk believes he's bullshitting. That is why the rallies are not a big deal. Moreover, the people at those rallies aren't "his" tribe either. You must understand that some people's lives are just incredibly parochial.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  6. #516
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Lewk doesn't believe the pandemic poses much of a risk to him and those in his tribe (both because he doesn't believe covid itself isn't all that dangerous, and because he believes he's protected from it). He believes that it poses a risk for the enemy, and, if not, that it can at least be used as a political weapon against the enemy. When Trump says he knew the pandemic was a big deal and that covid was dangerous, Lewk believes he's bullshitting. That is why the rallies are not a big deal. Moreover, the people at those rallies aren't "his" tribe either. You must understand that some people's lives are just incredibly parochial.
    If Covid isn't all that dangerous, Trump closing down travel from China ( except for more than 8,000 Chinese and foreign nationals based in those territories entered the U.S. in the first three months after the travel restrictions were imposed. Additionally, more than 27,000 Americans returned from mainland China in the first month after the restrictions took effect. U.S. officials lost track of more than 1,600 of them who were supposed to be monitored for virus exposure.) was the wrong move as well, still Lewk praises him for it: "Trump was one of the first political leaders to actually act (China travel ban) in regards to Covid."

    But, yeah, I can see where I'm going wrong with this, trying to distillate some sort of reasoning from this when rationality is nowhere to be found. Still ... it's just ... I can't ... you know, 10 years ago I thought Death Panels was the utmost bullshit die hard republican supporters would swallow, and now this. Gawd, I can't imagine being an actual Republican right now. It seems they either have to join the Clown Circus, or hide under a blanket hoping this will all go away soon. But that's me projecting being an actual human being upon these folks.

    I should relate this to being a Bruins fan in a match against their arch rivals the Canadians. Any penalty on the Bruins is a ref fuck up, any missed penalty of the Canadians is proof the Bruins are always screwed over by the referees. But I can't. People don't die because of a hockey game. 200,000 people did because of Covid. And predictions are that number will be doubled come next year.

    The scale of this just fucks me over. The usual shenanigans when it's economic and ideological matters, sure. The Iraq war caused what, 5,000 American casualties? This is just so much more severe. And also not half a world away, but on everyone's doorstep. Maybe that's just it. The scale fucks everyone over and makes it impossible to accept. Throw in some partisan bollockery, and here we are.

    Sorry, I'm rambling on a bit, and could go on in this disjointed fashion for some pages, because the world now has actually gone completely bananapeanutbuttersandwich crazy while previously I was under the impression we got there 19 years ago. I was mistaken how deep the rabbithole actually could go.

    As Hazir's signature once read: we've hit rockbottom, lets start digging!
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  7. #517
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    If Covid isn't all that dangerous, Trump closing down travel from China ( except for more than 8,000 Chinese and foreign nationals based in those territories entered the U.S. in the first three months after the travel restrictions were imposed. Additionally, more than 27,000 Americans returned from mainland China in the first month after the restrictions took effect. U.S. officials lost track of more than 1,600 of them who were supposed to be monitored for virus exposure.) was the wrong move as well, still Lewk praises him for it: "Trump was one of the first political leaders to actually act (China travel ban) in regards to Covid."

    But, yeah, I can see where I'm going wrong with this, trying to distillate some sort of reasoning from this when rationality is nowhere to be found. Still ... it's just ... I can't ... you know, 10 years ago I thought Death Panels was the utmost bullshit die hard republican supporters would swallow, and now this. Gawd, I can't imagine being an actual Republican right now. It seems they either have to join the Clown Circus, or hide under a blanket hoping this will all go away soon. But that's me projecting being an actual human being upon these folks.

    I should relate this to being a Bruins fan in a match against their arch rivals the Canadians. Any penalty on the Bruins is a ref fuck up, any missed penalty of the Canadians is proof the Bruins are always screwed over by the referees. But I can't. People don't die because of a hockey game. 200,000 people did because of Covid. And predictions are that number will be doubled come next year.

    The scale of this just fucks me over. The usual shenanigans when it's economic and ideological matters, sure. The Iraq war caused what, 5,000 American casualties? This is just so much more severe. And also not half a world away, but on everyone's doorstep. Maybe that's just it. The scale fucks everyone over and makes it impossible to accept. Throw in some partisan bollockery, and here we are.

    Sorry, I'm rambling on a bit, and could go on in this disjointed fashion for some pages, because the world now has actually gone completely bananapeanutbuttersandwich crazy while previously I was under the impression we got there 19 years ago. I was mistaken how deep the rabbithole actually could go.

    As Hazir's signature once read: we've hit rockbottom, lets start digging!
    I think you might enjoy reading Nicholas Epley's Mindwise
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  8. #518
    Big news: Cuban Americans honoured Trump with the Bay of Pigs award

    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  9. #519
    Ziggy, Lewk won't answer your questions any more than Republicans (who still support and enable Trump) will. Because they'd have to admit they don't really value human lives. Let alone religious freedom, equal justice, or Law & Order -- the things they call principles are just tools they use as campaign slogans. They care more about Power than people:

    "Pro-Life" is just a trope they use to push for 'conservative' anti-abortion judges.
    "Family Values" doesn't include immigrant or refugee children separated from their parents and kept in cages, or "lost" in the foster care system.
    They don't want high quality Healthcare for everyone -- they want to get rid of Medicaid and Medicare, and repeal Obamacare. (Cull the herd?)
    They're fine with demonizing Muslims or Atheists (even Catholic Christians who are Democrats).
    And when it comes to systemic, racial inequalities and police brutality....they refuse to see the problems, but double-down on white grievances.

    It's all very tribal and cultural. Remember the '08 post-election autopsy that concluded the (R) party was small and shrinking? Well, it looks like they've decided to embrace every racist, White Nationalist, right-wing militia, Deep State conspiracy theorist, and Q'anon supporter. With Trump as their Infallible Leader. I don't understand this degree of Cognitive Dissonance either, but I doubt Lewk can provide any insight.

  10. #520
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    No you fucking clown, as any person who's ever written a piece for the Atlantic can confirm, their teams check literally everything. Every tiny little detail. What someone ate at a meeting, what the weather was like, everything. In addition to the Atlantic, several other news sources have confirmed the details of this story, all of which are consistent with Trump's public statements on these subjects. Against this, you're putting a menagerie of notorious liars and morons known for pulling bullshit out of their ass—people who lie and bullshit on the record. Lewk, you're a fucking joke. You know you're a joke, and I am beginning to suspect even you don't respect yourself. Which is fair, because you don't deserve any respect.
    And yet no one is on record to confirm Trump said those things. Uh huh. You'd literally believe anything as long as it damages your political opponents.

  11. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Lewk doesn't believe the pandemic poses much of a risk to him and those in his tribe (both because he doesn't believe covid itself isn't all that dangerous, and because he believes he's protected from it). He believes that it poses a risk for the enemy, and, if not, that it can at least be used as a political weapon against the enemy. When Trump says he knew the pandemic was a big deal and that covid was dangerous, Lewk believes he's bullshitting. That is why the rallies are not a big deal. Moreover, the people at those rallies aren't "his" tribe either. You must understand that some people's lives are just incredibly parochial.
    The pandemic generally don't pose a significant risk to people who aren't immune compromised or the elderly but that's beside the point. I actually don't believe Trump when he says he always knew it was serious and he was trying to avoid a panic. Trump often has bouts of wishful thinking. That said he listened to the advice of the experts around him and took positive action. A national lock-down or mask mandate wouldn't be appropriate - the whole point of having states is that each state can choose to do what it is best for its people. New York is not Alaska. Florida is not Washington. Now we know that several Democratic governors absolutely fucked up but we don't want a system where the federal government is trying to mandate a one size fits all approach.

  12. #522
    Explain the fuck-ups from Republican governors, in states like Florida. The DeSantis administration won't even share data about children being infected at public schools.

    If you don't want a system where the federal government requires states to publish public health information....then what the hell DO you want?

  13. #523
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    You'd literally believe anything as long as it damages your political opponents.
    Hello psychological projection, how are you this morning?
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  14. #524
    Note to Ziggy -- notice how Lewk avoided answering your question? That's the Deny and Deflect strategy. It's become the mainstay of Trumpuppets and Trumpistas.

  15. #525
    No worries. Expectations were low.
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  16. #526
    Maybe low expectations is part of the problem? It used to be that the US was considered like the gold standard for democracies, but that's been whittled to a nub during the Trump presidency. We've been talking about this for decades, like you said. I just don't know what's a cause or a symptom. All I can say is that it's very disturbing.

    PS,There's a good chance that Trump will be re-elected due to our electoral college crap. I've had a hard time during the last four years, living in the rabbit hole. Steeling myself for another four years of the same shit or more is depressing. I might need to be medicated.
    Last edited by GGT; 09-15-2020 at 07:03 AM.

  17. #527
    With its long history of voter suppression and gerrymandering I'm not sure the US has ever been the gold standard for democracies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  18. #528
    We used to be considered the "leader" of democracies, especially after WWII.

    Even today the POTUS is still called "the leader of the free world". Maybe it's like a vestigial memory or something.

  19. #529
    Senior Member Flixy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    We used to be considered the "leader" of democracies, especially after WWII.

    Even today the POTUS is still called "the leader of the free world". Maybe it's like a vestigial memory or something.
    Called that in the US, maybe.
    Keep on keepin' the beat alive!

  20. #530
    Quote Originally Posted by GGT View Post
    We used to be considered the "leader" of democracies, especially after WWII.

    Even today the POTUS is still called "the leader of the free world". Maybe it's like a vestigial memory or something.
    Leader of the free world is/was to do with the USA's leadership role within NATO etc not to do with your being the gold standard democracy.

    The term also hasn't been used much except ironically since the end of the Cold War.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ominous Gamer View Post
    ℬeing upset is understandable, but be upset at yourself for poor planning, not at the world by acting like a spoiled bitch during an interview.

  21. #531
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    And yet no one is on record to confirm Trump said those things.
    You fucking moron Trump himself is on the record saying the those things and worse. You don't have a leg to stand on. Even you believe the reporting is accurate, but you have your head stuck too far up your ass to admit it, so you deflect like a scared fucking baby. Poor thing

    The most plausible explanation for why nobody's said anything on the record is that those who can confirm he said these things are in the military, and have interpreted their obligations in such a way that it precludes publicly taking a position against the president.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  22. #532
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...atlantic-nope/
    Bets on it being 50 people tomorrow?
    "In a field where an overlooked bug could cost millions, you want people who will speak their minds, even if they’re sometimes obnoxious about it."

  23. #533
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  24. #534
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAnePhKa6eY

    Journalist: "Hi mr President, let me introduce you to facts and fact checking."
    Trump: "I want my Hannity! "
    I could have had class. I could have been a contender.
    I could have been somebody. Instead of a bum
    Which is what I am

    I aim at the stars
    But sometimes I hit London

  25. #535
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAnePhKa6eY

    Journalist: "Hi mr President, let me introduce you to facts and fact checking."
    Trump: "I want my Hannity! "
    This man is the archetypal bullshitter a fitting leader, in a sense
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  26. #536
    Quote Originally Posted by Lewkowski View Post
    Oh lol they put NPR as center. Hilarious.
    NPR is center, for those not living in a right-wing propaganda bubble. You should come out some time and breathe in real journalism, honest reporting, and factual information. You might not like what you learn, though.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  27. #537
    Quote Originally Posted by RandBlade View Post
    With its long history of voter suppression and gerrymandering I'm not sure the US has ever been the gold standard for democracies.
    I was thinking the same thing. And what kind of healthy democracy is locked into two parties and so easily allows minority rule?
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  28. #538
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PAnePhKa6eY

    Journalist: "Hi mr President, let me introduce you to facts and fact checking."
    Trump: "I want my Hannity! "
    Just fuckin' wow. He is so comfortable with lying.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

  29. #539
    Quote Originally Posted by EyeKhan View Post
    NPR is center, for those not living in a right-wing propaganda bubble. You should come out some time and breathe in real journalism, honest reporting, and factual information. You might not like what you learn, though.
    Oh no, now you've given him permission to shit a ton of stinky-ass whataboutism all over this thread. You know he lacks the capacity for contextualization.
    “Humanity's greatest advances are not in its discoveries, but in how those discoveries are applied to reduce inequity.”
    — Bill Gates

  30. #540
    Quote Originally Posted by Aimless View Post
    Oh no, now you've given him permission to shit a ton of stinky-ass whataboutism all over this thread. You know he lacks the capacity for contextualization.
    Fuck him. He's at best a troll, at worst he's exactly what he appears to be from his posts. Either way, his posts are absolutely not worth the attention they get from you, me or anyone else.
    The Rules
    Copper- behave toward others to elicit treatment you would like (the manipulative rule)
    Gold- treat others how you would like them to treat you (the self regard rule)
    Platinum - treat others the way they would like to be treated (the PC rule)

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